nordish

What is the cockpit for on space ship / shuttle?

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Was reading this and thought myself: Is there an advantage of using a Cockpit instead of a habitat on a space-ship? Especially as it soaks up more space usually.

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Mounting two large storages from the vehicle bay and using a habitat as a cockpit maximizes carrying/storage capacity.

The vehicle bay cockpit looks cooler? Maybe?? Can't think of any real advantages.

Edited by pumpkinmeerkat

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I accidently built two cockpit on my first shuttle... I ended up having to find the closest landing spot to my home base and marooning it out there. ran all the way home. 

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The built-on cockpit just looks better, has a windshield. But my Astroneer is too hardcore or that, gotta use the movable rover seat.

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The habitat is preferable when you initially run off to colonize a new planet, otherwise I'm good with a regular seat. Then you can use that seat for other vehicles if you so desire.

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Using Habitat is an exploit/bug.

Using Seat is an exploit/bug (fixed atm)

Placing Large Storage on Shuttle or 2 on Spaceship with Habitat or Seat on them is Exploit/bug.

There's only 1 actual driving seat for shuttle/ship, that's the cabin. 1 to 3 player versions.

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3 hours ago, Martin said:

Using Habitat is an exploit/bug.

Using Seat is an exploit/bug (fixed atm)

Placing Large Storage on Shuttle or 2 on Spaceship with Habitat or Seat on them is Exploit/bug.

There's only 1 actual driving seat for shuttle/ship, that's the cabin. 1 to 3 player versions.

I didn't realize you could use a seat.  That is hilarious! 

The habitat being a bug seems a bit silly. (Not doubting you, just think it is silly).  After all, when you pick a new character you get into a habitat to be launched to the new world!

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3 hours ago, Martin said:

Using Habitat is an exploit/bug.

Using Seat is an exploit/bug (fixed atm)

Placing Large Storage on Shuttle or 2 on Spaceship with Habitat or Seat on them is Exploit/bug.

There's only 1 actual driving seat for shuttle/ship, that's the cabin. 1 to 3 player versions.

Not sure why the term Exploit feels dirty in this situation, bug yes, but we are playing a pre-alpha, looking for all of those lil bugs and exploits to assist in a cleaner final release.

This kind of felt like a... You are cheating

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9 minutes ago, r3wired said:

Not sure why the term Exploit feels dirty in this situation, bug yes, but we are playing a pre-alpha, looking for all of those lil bugs and exploits to assist in a cleaner final release.

This kind of felt like a... You are cheating

yeah it is cheating but pretty harmless

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That's sad, actually. I like the idea that you can build up all the storage and then customize your ship from there (habitat or seat, storage, and so forth). I also dislike if you build a seat through the vehicle bay and you can't remove it...That's counterintuitive to the rest of the game.

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Exploit simply means unfair advantage.

So if 50% of the player base only uses a cabin for moral reasons and 50% are using an extra storage + habitat, then half the group is getting an unfair advantage over the others.

If you feel that Exploit = Cheating.. then I'd say you're feeling guilty perhaps?

To me, an exploit means something that gains an advantage that others won't use, so I won't use it either.  I believe in level playing fields.

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i am guilty.

i used a spaceship with 2 large storages on it. i attached a habitat and a ton of resources (resin, compound, copper & aluminium) to colonize the arid planet. it's a "one-fly-job" this way. you dont have to go back to terran/barren and refill the resin & compound storages that fast.

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1 hour ago, syterth said:

That's sad, actually. I like the idea that you can build up all the storage and then customize your ship from there (habitat or seat, storage, and so forth). I also dislike if you build a seat through the vehicle bay and you can't remove it...That's counterintuitive to the rest of the game.

I think if you could turn flying ships into trailers, for pure storage then this should be expected and acceptable.

But a spaceship is modeled after a Car.. and in a car you have a driving seat, 3-4 other seats, a cargo space and an engine.  You can't rip out the driving seat sit in the boot and drive the car.. work out how to do that and you'd have an unfair advantage over other car users.  If only in reversing ;)

edit for my post above:

Cheating = Using 3rd party/external code or hacks/bots etc to gain a massive unfair advantage.  Something most people just won't do, either due to their moral compass or because they don't want to get banned.  I think there's a huge difference between cheating and exploiting. 

Exploiting can also be called tactical advantage.. using terrain to your advantage.. shooting from a hill, standing between target and sun to blind them, building traps.. using rocks as traps.. and so on, it isn't necessarily a nasty thing.

Edited by Martin

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1 hour ago, syterth said:

That's sad, actually. I like the idea that you can build up all the storage and then customize your ship from there (habitat or seat, storage, and so forth). I also dislike if you build a seat through the vehicle bay and you can't remove it...That's counterintuitive to the rest of the game.

Done this yesterday as well and have to say: It's too easy. I can load a spaceship with more ressources then I need to build a working small base with all necessary modules on every planet. I would support a more limited storage space on space ships.

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2 hours ago, Martin said:

Exploit simply means unfair advantage.

So if 50% of the player base only uses a cabin for moral reasons and 50% are using an extra storage + habitat, then half the group is getting an unfair advantage over the others.

If you feel that Exploit = Cheating.. then I'd say you're feeling guilty perhaps?

To me, an exploit means something that gains an advantage that others won't use, so I won't use it either.  I believe in level playing fields.

I'm just curious who you are gaining advantage over. It is currently a solo/minimal party game. You work by yourself building your base, or you join others on your friends list and collaborate.

It's not a guilty feeling, I just don't see this as that cheating type of issue. You are not really one-upping anyone or yourself. Players have just stumbled upon something else that needs to be fixed.

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47 minutes ago, r3wired said:

I'm just curious who you are gaining advantage over. It is currently a solo/minimal party game. You work by yourself building your base, or you join others on your friends list and collaborate.

It's not a guilty feeling, I just don't see this as that cheating type of issue. You are not really one-upping anyone or yourself. Players have just stumbled upon something else that needs to be fixed.

It's a good point. 

The main issue with people doing this, is that they inevitably mess their own game up.  They take the habitat off the ship and plant it, then find they can't use the ship again, because they exploited the storage/habitat bug.  I've seen dozens of threads in steam and here from people complaining they can't fly their ship anymore because they did this.   Serves them right in my book.

If they'd built a cabin, then they'd be able to fly back and forth until running out of fuel, but, carry smaller amounts.

As for advantage, there isn't any really, at least not until multiplayer is added or if they were playing a sort of ingame coop competition.   There are some issues though with people using exploits like this.  For example, review opinions, if someone using exploits then posts a review saying the game is boring, is it not then unfair on the game, that they're likely bored, because they used exploits.  Or if a person made a post in forums saying they've beaten the game, making bases on every planet.. but they did so using exploits.. have they really beaten the game? And if achievements were added, which presumably they will be,  anyone boasting of completing difficult achievements who used exploits to do so.. measures an advantage over those who gain them by not doing so.

So it's all pretty circumstantial.

It's not like there's a point scoring system in place or there's a faction based system in place on a pvp server, the use of advantages to play fairly is different there.  But essentially, if you find an exploit, you report it.  If you use it, then you're playing the game wrong.   Ultimately, you're only cheating yourself.  And that's obviously a choice.

The biggest issue for me, personally, is people posting "I can't fly anymore" posts.. when it's entirely their own fault.  It's like running head first into a wall, then saying "that's not fair, it hurts".

Edited by Martin

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3 hours ago, nordish said:

Done this yesterday as well and have to say: It's too easy. I can load a spaceship with more ressources then I need to build a working small base with all necessary modules on every planet. I would support a more limited storage space on space ships.

You mean an enforced limited storage. ie what you're supposed to do. Build 1 Large Storage, then either a 1 player cabin/Small Storage or a 3 player cabin..

Of course, you do also have the choice, don't do it.. versus do it. Much like the condenser/trader exploit argument.

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Personally, I'd not have an issue with using the rover seat, fixed to the base of the shuttle/ship, but not at a slant on the storage.  The rover seat might be for environmental reasons, quick in/out movement, more vision etc when driving.  But in space.. you're still in a suit.  Does it really matter?  Also the seat isn't really the issue, it's the ability to seriously increase your storage, reducing your flight times.  People who don't do it, have to make 2-3 trips, people who do, make 1.  Sounds totally fair. /sic

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32 minutes ago, Martin said:

The main issue with people doing this, is that they inevitably mess their own game up.

Ah ha! That's why a chair won't fly my spaceship; however, if you build a new habitat and put that on your ship, you can fly again.

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Yes.. But that isn't what those posts are about.. they usually can't find resin/component/copper to build their bases up to make the printer to make a new habitat.

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self-inflicted! Adapt or leave. This is not hello kitty. We can not expect airbags for all possible mistakes we make as players.

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12 hours ago, Martin said:

Personally, I'd not have an issue with using the rover seat, fixed to the base of the shuttle/ship, but not at a slant on the storage.  The rover seat might be for environmental reasons, quick in/out movement, more vision etc when driving.  But in space.. you're still in a suit.  Does it really matter?  Also the seat isn't really the issue, it's the ability to seriously increase your storage, reducing your flight times.  People who don't do it, have to make 2-3 trips, people who do, make 1.  Sounds totally fair. /sic

Well, it is not a question of does it matter in space, but rather does it matter getting to space.  Atmosphere equals friction and heat while reaching an exit velocity speed.    That is really what the capsule is for, that and in case the suit gets a hole in it.

Edited by Flashman

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Well there is that, but if you did develop a hole at least you'd be able to eat something before you died.

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13 hours ago, Martin said:

The main issue with people doing this, is that they inevitably mess their own game up.  They take the habitat off the ship and plant it, then find they can't use the ship again, because they exploited the storage/habitat bug.  I've seen dozens of threads in steam and here from people complaining they can't fly their ship anymore because they did this.   Serves them right in my book.

 

13 hours ago, Martin said:

Yes.. But that isn't what those posts are about.. they usually can't find resin/component/copper to build their bases up to make the printer to make a new habitat.

To me, these are just different sides of the same coin... Being able to fly your ship with a habitat gives the possibility of leaving players stuck on a planet. If SES are ok leaving that as a potential consequence of using a habitat instead of a cockpit, then that is a design decision. If they are not ok with it and make it so you can only fly with a cockpit, that is a different design decision. I see benefits on both sides.

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