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So there's a thread about hydrazine farming and then trading it for basically unlimited resources as long as you have power, and I had an idea to fix it. I would have posted this there, but I had a bunch more ideas, and I thought it was appropriate to start a new topic. So here's my idea for the farm fix plus more:

  • Make the hydrazine canister a crafted item, and when mining hydrazine without one in your backpack, it will give solid hydrazine that can't be used on a spaceship or shuttle (more on that later).
  • It should be a generally expensive item to create (the canister) so that trading it away might not be the best idea.
  • Change the function of the fuel condenser to be a converter, it takes solid hydrazine on one side, turns it into liquid, and puts it into a canister that you put into another socket on the other side.
  • Converting solid hydrazine to liquid should only give one charge into the canister (that's half the can).
  • Add in another module or 2-socket crafted item that looks similar to the old fuel condenser and call it fuel storage.
  • Fuel storage takes liquid hydrazine from your cans and stores it, kind of like a battery. There should be one socket for in and one socket for out, or a switch type interface like the printer, so that when you put a half-full canister on the machine knows what to do.


    So, effectively what would be done with these changes:
     
  • Hydrazine would be more valuable but not any less common.
  • The resources to make the canisters would be more valuable.
  • Beacons would be more useful, if you wanted to only get liquid hydrazine from mining. (Mine the can full, go back and store it, come back and mine with the empty can).
  • Hydrazine farming through the fuel condenser would be eliminated.
  • An effective way to store fuel would be added. (And to take it with you on a spaceship if the devs go with 2-socket item requires another third socket somewhere to take your canister).
  • Fuel storage would be a thing that you would want for-sure with the changes, who wants to make storage for all that solid hydrazine since cans don't just come from nowhere now?
  • Hydrazine makes more sense... it's the only thing in the game that goes straight into something else (the can) that you didn't have to make yourself.

Let me know what you guys think of my ideas! If you guys like these I might have more about vehicles and whatnot, too.

Edited by A Tiny Box
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And I think it goes without saying, that when putting fuel into your spaceship only the fuel is consumed and not the canister.

Sorry for double post, it won't let me edit for some reason...

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I like these ideas.

Someone else suggested allowing Titanium tanks, which I suggest would be higher pressure and so hold more fuel.

The tanks, like you suggest, could be crafted out of Compound and reuseable rather than disposable as they currently are. This way they still have trading value but it costs a bit more to balance the current trade value.

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I like the idea and have posted something similar, though not so well elaborated on other threads. The different canister materials is intriguing. Maybe the cheap canisters are made from aluminum and can be used only once, Titanium canisters could be reusable.

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25 minutes ago, WhosTog said:

I like the idea and have posted something similar, though not so well elaborated on other threads. The different canister materials is intriguing. Maybe the cheap canisters are made from aluminum and can be used only once, Titanium canisters could be reusable.

This would make hydrazine way too expensive.

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24 minutes ago, King Bobbie said:

This would make hydrazine way too expensive.

High pressure tanks (titanium) are expensive because they hold more fuel, and, I presume, would have a value for trade. Especially if deconstruction or recycling becomes a method in this game. The same could apply to aluminum too. Perhaps there are three grades of pressure tanks, Compound, Aluminum, Titanium.

Edited by travin
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4 hours ago, travin said:

High pressure tanks (titanium) are expensive because they hold more fuel, and, I presume, would have a value for trade. Especially if deconstruction or recycling becomes a method in this game. The same could apply to aluminum too. Perhaps there are three grades of pressure tanks, Compound, Aluminum, Titanium.

That actually sounds like a great idea. It would add a great dynamic to the game where you'd really want to be thoughtful about what you're spending your resources on. It would make the extra capacity for hydrazine a possible trade-off rather than something you need to make as soon as possible. Recycling adds a whole new bag of considerations though. If recycling yields back exactly what you put into the item in the first place, I could see it being abused. If anything, I'd say they'd have to make every tank more expensive in that case not to also be potentially game breaking as well, so that the recycled value of them could be degraded. For example:

If recycling doesn't exist, you could have the following values since you wouldn't be able to just recycle it and get the exact same thing back, making it kind of just a one use thing which kind of discourages going out on the planet and finding more resources. Alternatively, the canisters could be non-recyclable in a recycling world, at least that's what I would want for these values. The single resource cost makes it printable on the backpack which is wildly more convenient then not being that way. If you wanted to go out searching for hydrazine without a long tether, you could possibly live off the power and oxygen from the surroundings with more slots free for them on your backpack, and then just build the tanks when you find the hydrazine. If you've only got a small tank, just throw down a beacon and come back later.

  • 1 Compound = 2 Charge Tank
  • 1 Aluminum = 4 Charge Tank
  • 1 Titanium = 10 Charge Tank

If recycling did exist, I think values would have to look something more like this and the recycle values would be lower, so that recycling would still have a purpose. Maybe when you've got the titanium available to just go for high-grade tanks, you could get rid of your smaller tanks. But it can't just be a one-to-one trade, otherwise the dynamic of the game would be "always build tanks first" or something of that nature because if you can recycle some things, but not other things, balance around a one-to-one system would mean there's always a "correct" order to build things so that you're not potentially wasting resources at the end of the day. So if recycling was a thing, these values make sense to me, at least in my head:

  • 2 Compound = 2 Charge Tank, recycling gives back 1 Compound
  • 1 Compound + 1 Aluminum = 4 Charge Tank, recycling gives back 1 Aluminum
  • 1 Compound + 1 Titanium = 10 Charge Tank, recycling gives back 1 Titanium

Essentially what's done by adding the compound cost to a recyclable item makes it so that you're not just recycling all day and that it's a waste of compound if you do, negating the possibility of abuse of the system. Not being a printable item in the backpack also adds a secondary dynamic to travel, and makes beacons even more relevant, since if you find a cave with everything you need, you'll have to come back more than once, and the trip for hydrazine will have to be after you make a tank.

The reason for the huge 10 charge tank is just because titanium is way harder to find than aluminum, so the upgrade better be good. That and the spaceship holds 20 charges right? Two titanium tanks fills her right up then. Values like these for small cans of fuel also make the ideas I've seen on here for hydrazine-based power or vehicles more viable if the developers were to add more features that make wanting more power a more desirable thing. I think for any of these ideas to make sense, the trading post needs a major overhaul to account for the trade values of these items. How would you calculate the cost of the can + the hydrazine inside? Are batteries tradeable? Maybe they can treat them the same way.

Also, another idea. If any of these ideas gets looked at or used, I think the new hydrazine cans should have markings like the batteries, so we know how much is in there since it wouldn't be just on a full or half-full basis anymore. We'd need to be able to keep track of those 10 charges on our titanium tanks!

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Indeed nice idea's!
Would also be nice if  Hydrazine  can be used as an energy source in combination with a generator. Maybe a  Hydrazine  specific generator that can be suited on the backpack for mobile energy generation like the generator that eats biostuff. Except this is more expensive but it may come in handy on a barren planet if energy is needed during night.

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Praise! Love the idea!

Perhaps titanium required to make the canisters, as I find too litle use of the stuff besiddes trading for ressin to expand my base.

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22 hours ago, travin said:

High pressure tanks (titanium) are expensive because they hold more fuel, and, I presume, would have a value for trade. Especially if deconstruction or recycling becomes a method in this game. The same could apply to aluminum too. Perhaps there are three grades of pressure tanks, Compound, Aluminum, Titanium.

Yeah, I think 3 tiers would be best.

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Not so sure on this. It really is a fleshed out idea, though I think the "casual-ness" of the game is a big appeal right now. There is a ton of "survival-resource gathering-no selfsustaining economy" games out already.

A possible change, where the fuel idea you mention is implemented, then condensers should be able to make water (H2O) that trades at a lower value than Hydrazine. It would take longer to make decent trades, and wouldn't be able to trade for any of the resources that only return one for 8 Hydrazine.

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3 hours ago, Soap MacTavish said:

Not so sure on this. It really is a fleshed out idea, though I think the "casual-ness" of the game is a big appeal right now. There is a ton of "survival-resource gathering-no selfsustaining economy" games out already.

A possible change, where the fuel idea you mention is implemented, then condensers should be able to make water (H2O) that trades at a lower value than Hydrazine. It would take longer to make decent trades, and wouldn't be able to trade for any of the resources that only return one for 8 Hydrazine.

I personally don't think it would become any less "casual" with everything that's been mentioned here. But that's an opinion. What I do know is that the ability to have unlimited fuel and therefore unlimited resources after having researched and built the fuel condenser takes at least some of the fun out of the game for a portion of the player-base, otherwise there wouldn't have been a post about it prior to this one, and not so many people would be down with the idea of fixing what's "broken." It's not like the game would be any harder, since they wouldn't have to change the spawn rate of Hydrazine crystals, and it wasn't that hard to procure to begin with. After only playing 4 hours into a save I already had more Hydrazine than I would need for a while and that was even before I had researched the fuel condenser.

Personally for me, not having to create the tanks for fuel from scratch takes away from the immersion of the gameplay and instead of being in the zone, I'm just kind of playing the game. I remember the first time I mined Hydrazine I was like, "Where did that can come from? Weird."

I'm not quite sure I understand the benefit of your H2O idea, my main concern being that, if I was a new player and was able to get some H2O, what use would it have to me besides trading? If it couldn't be used anywhere besides the trading platform, I think it's entire existence to me as a new player would just be confusing and frustrating as I try to plug it into every socket on my base and if it has a low yield on the trading platform and I have only 1 or 2 and plug them in and it still says "Yield: 0," even as an experienced player I might just say, "Well that's useless." I think if the developers are going to be introducing new resources they need to have some kind of practical use, because I'm sure everyone's first thought when finding something new in this game was, "OH LOOK! What can I do with THAT?"

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+1  I was thinking just make it take 15 minutes for a hydraziene canister to fill.  Pulling fuel out of thin air takes a while.  Mine is the easy fix but I like yours a lot better in the long run.

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Adding a few things:

  • oxygen tanks and fuel tanks could be the same multipurpose tank (read somewhere else in this forum) - not sure about using up the tanks though
  • 4 or 5 organic stacks could give 1 charge (half the can) when processed by the condenser, giving that resource a little more use too.
  • the Trade Platform should work with 4:1 instead of 2:1 ratio of resources. It should be designed to help you in a pinch when you are missing an urgent resource; NOT for you to sit idle in you base waiting for the overpowered solar panels to fill up your energy.

I agree that we should never be able to create resources out of thin air; there is unlimited energy on the surface and the game is about exploring and finding resources.
The Fuel Condenser, the way it is, breaks the game, even if they double the energy cost and time.

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