RustyXXL

Reliable means of Navigation

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As the other Thread always comes back to maps/minimaps and the discussion of their advantages, I think we need a new Thread, to discuss the improvement of the current Navigational Aids and what could be added to the game, to improve the situation for people like me, that feel that the current System is to lacking.

This is not a Thread pro or contra maps/minimaps. I don't want to discuss these here. It is about alternatives.

First of the Problem: While there certainly are an ammount of players who are fine with the current means of Navigation, and manage to find their way back to their bases, for me (and from what I gathered a number of other players) The current system is lacking to a degree that it is really frustrating. For me personally it is so bad, that I gave up on certain saves and restarted, because I felt that starting over is quicker than finding my way back. For me the Problem is not in caves. In caves I make extensive use of tethers, that lead me back to my base, and while it can be annoying, when you run out of tethers deep underground with no compound in the caves in some cases, that's something you can work around.

The main Problem is with vehicular exploration. With vehicles you can run out of sight of your markers very quickly. I'm also very quickly distracted (And like to be easily distracted while exploring), which makes going in straight lines very hard, and more importantly very boring for me. At the same time I do really like to just run of in some direction and go really far, when exploring and not go in the same direction multiple times or even go back on the same path that I came. You might as well use the travel back to base to do more exploring.

The current means of navigation either rely on Eyesight (Beacons and natural/manmade landmarks) or on driving in straight lines all the time (compass/Stars) and therefore are really incompatible with the way I enjoy exploring the most. It does indeed limit my surface exploring in saves that I care about quite a bit.

Now the best suggestion that I've heard so far was to add an indicator to the compass pointing toward the last habitat you saved in on a per planet basis. This should enable it for people like me to find back to their bases, without revealing to much about the surroundings, and would be a perfectly acceptable solution to the problem for me.

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I am against the research part in the current randomness based research system, as in my opinion as a very basic level to find back to your base it should be available before you head out for your exploration, but it has the advantage that you could build more than one, if you have more than one base on a planet, and the compass could show either more than one or the nearest one.

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13 minutes ago, Ferocious said:

Ayyy, that was one of my suggestions  Heres the pic I used.

20170109034847_1.jpg

Sadly I can't put it in the op, but @Ferocious posted this nice example picture in the aforementioned minimap thread.

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4 minutes ago, Martin said:

Alternatives to a map.. hmm.. a chart?

I wouldn't see how this would solve the problems described in the op, but I'd certainly read and think about a more elaborate description.

3 minutes ago, ent|ty said:

Lol, this topic is just going to duplicate the map one.

Well, if you think that way, you are welcome to just ignore this thread.

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I'll give it some serious thought.  And come back later.. Now.. I'm off to watch season 11 of Supernatural. Episode 1.

Set just arrived in the post.

Cya'll ;)

Extra ;) for Ferocious, as I know she loves them.

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I get lost constantly, even if within a minute's drive of my base. This is because I have no natural sense of direction and because beacons, landmarks and everything else all look the same and can be easily (for me anyway) confused with each other. I love the exploration but hate getting lost trying to get back afterwards.

i am also against a map, because it will make it too easy. I've posted a couple of times that differentiating beacons by colour can help me identify different routes and different icons can help know there is something of interest over there rather than a route marker. If we can use icons for routes, resources, discoveries, etc., then even I should have no excuse!

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A small handheld computer that lets you manage beacons, and select one to 'ping' (where thats the only arrow on your compass), would be a great help over what we have now with beacons. The biggest problem is that you reach so far (or go behind a mountain, or under ground) and can no longer see a darn waypoint anywhere.

This little computer could be a button on your backpack, you click, and it floats up a console with listed beacons/habitats/players. You select one, and it makes it the current guiding arrow on compass. From there, you can usually figure your way to it. Changing your target as you go, or leaving it set to 'home' all the time.

Personally, with a dozen beacons out, and nearby, the horizon is a mess of shit. Odd markers that look like guitar picks, floating in the sky. It seems to counter to the UI 'on the astronaut'. I would rather those markers be hovering on the astronauts on-board holographic compass display lol.

Anyhow, thats my bit. No trolling from me about some unrelated other thread.

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First off, you have a compass. When heading out it only takes a second to check it.

I applied some tricks I learned in MC to avoid getting lost when exploring. Mainly, always put tethers on the right side of the cave when walking out. That way you know which way the path home is, walk so that they are on the left! If you are in a larger area that's not so easy defined, draw arrows. I've seen some place clumps of tethers as a signal. If I leave myself a sign in the dirt, I'll drop extra energy or some item on it to get my attention. 

Outdoors, look back to your base every now and then. If the marker is getting hard to see, or you're entering mountains, then drop a beacon. If you have multiple beacons strung along, whip out your tool and draw an arrow in the dirt.

i just saw a trick on Reddit, a guy pointed the tool at his feet and made the tallest spire he could, them put the beacon on top. Could see it even over mountains!

Edited by AutoMcD

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"Maybe they could add a minimap!"

but in all seriousness, that compass image does look very good. Only problem I see is that the compass is basically an image that can (presumably) rotate around the player and it doesn't seem to have any way to "float" on top of slopes on the ground, but that's probably me knitpicking. also, it might be a bit difficult to code the points to go in the right direction, considering the planets are round and all; but that hasn't really stopped the devs yet, has it?

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In Helmet HUD - same way we press Q to focus the pack let's press R or something to give us an in helmet view, there can be statistics there like direction, wind(when a vane is attached), power, oxygen levels etc.  Then we can have a new "sonar" device that we can link to a specific beacon that always shows in the HUD but only one, it can just beep and you can see oscillating waves in the HUD so its not also too easy.  similar to when you called a mate in Spore during the cell stage.

This can be expanded in so many ways, let us deploy satellites into orbit and make an antenna attachment similar to the wind/solar ones and then we can get data from the satellite sent to us, this can be disrupted under caves. This way there is progression to it.  In the beginning you can make the basic components on your suit(since we know those slots are limited and precious) and eventually upgrade to satellite telemetry and etc sent to your suit, this modules can be upgraded on the satellites as well by going up there and doing space walks and all that!!

Well time to upgrade the mirror on my telescope so I can find nearby life on planets! wooooooottt?!?!!?!

Edited by z33k

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18 hours ago, z33k said:

<snip>

This can be expanded in so many ways, let us deploy satellites into orbit and make an antenna attachment similar to the wind/solar ones and then we can get data from the satellite sent to us, this can be disrupted under caves.

</snip>

Have tethers transmit data so it can still work under caves, but only if you have "antenna tethers" (antethas? :b) on the line somewhere; i.e. at least one on the surface (to communicate with the satellite) and occasionally inside the cave (to do triangulation or w/e to actually find the player)

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Ok I thought about.

How about Addons?

You can get a Lamp Addon that lets you see further.. you can get a map addon, a compass addon and so forth.. maybe a jetpack addon.. and it takes up space in your backpack.  Map or compass 1 slot like the solar panel, maybe have a little cable running from where it connects to the item, on connection you can use a specific key to access your new ability.  Jetpack might take up 4 slots.. and so on.

This way, people who don't want to make use of these extra little things or prefer more space.. can pick and choose.

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3 hours ago, Martin said:

Ok I thought about.

How about Addons?

You can get a Lamp Addon that lets you see further.. you can get a map addon, a compass addon and so forth.. maybe a jetpack addon.. and it takes up space in your backpack.  Map or compass 1 slot like the solar panel, maybe have a little cable running from where it connects to the item, on connection you can use a specific key to access your new ability.  Jetpack might take up 4 slots.. and so on.

This way, people who don't want to make use of these extra little things or prefer more space.. can pick and choose.

That is what I am saying, you dont have to build these things if you don't want to, its a tool! this way we can chose to not, even the HUD idea you can remove the key bind and never press it! :P

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3 hours ago, Martin said:

Ok I thought about.

How about Addons?

You can get a Lamp Addon that lets you see further.. you can get a map addon, a compass addon and so forth.. maybe a jetpack addon.. and it takes up space in your backpack.  Map or compass 1 slot like the solar panel, maybe have a little cable running from where it connects to the item, on connection you can use a specific key to access your new ability.  Jetpack might take up 4 slots.. and so on.

This way, people who don't want to make use of these extra little things or prefer more space.. can pick and choose.

Excellent, now we're on to that giveth/taketh thing.. Benefits, but then less room in backpack for other activities :D

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I think it would be cool to be able to build a locator becon beyond what is currently available with a beep or an arrow that you can attach to your pack.

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On 1/9/2017 at 2:48 PM, ozvoxhumana68 said:

1 - Compass for the truck.

2 - Numbered beacons instead of just dots.

 

+1 on Both

As for some of the other ideas, I really like the idea of being able to achieve skills or the ability to construct additional tools for wayfinding and others. Perhaps this will come once Mods become available.

I'd like to see

  1. Compass for all vehicles - There are times when you can use it while in a spaceship.
  2. Expandable, labeled Compass - Make it more like a survival compass. the compass has additional capabilities, including markers you can label. Or perhaps the labels for other markers would show up, but only with a certain mouse gesture or key press, to maintain the simplicity of the interface. More precise and has advanced wayfinding functions like a real compass, perhaps even with enhanced camera function - like looking into a scope.
  3. Color Coded tethers
  4. Tether Markers - colored and labeled, you could place a marker anywhere on a tether or tether line that can be positioned like a street sign - locked.
  5. Flashing Markers - colored, especially for subterranean ventures. Placed on a tether line makes the tethers pulsate with the flashing rhythm.
  6. Flares - for signaling to others in multiplayer mode, when you're so far away they can't see your marker.
  7. Drone - send a fixed-duration drone into an area to explore or map.

 

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12 hours ago, travin said:

I'd like to see

  1. Compass for all vehicles - There are times when you can use it while in a spaceship.
  2. Expandable, labeled Compass - Make it more like a survival compass. the compass has additional capabilities, including markers you can label. Or perhaps the labels for other markers would show up, but only with a certain mouse gesture or key press, to maintain the simplicity of the interface. More precise and has advanced wayfinding functions like a real compass, perhaps even with enhanced camera function - like looking into a scope.
  3. Color Coded tethers
  4. Tether Markers - colored and labeled, you could place a marker anywhere on a tether or tether line that can be positioned like a street sign - locked.
  5. Flashing Markers - colored, especially for subterranean ventures. Placed on a tether line makes the tethers pulsate with the flashing rhythm.
  6. Flares - for signaling to others in multiplayer mode, when you're so far away they can't see your marker.
  7. Drone - send a fixed-duration drone into an area to explore or map.

 

1. It would be hard to imagine a compass in space, since compasses are based off of magnetic fields... But maybe if it just pointed towards all of the planets, and maybe one that points towards the sun.

2. +1, maybe even add actual cameras, like CCTV-style? accessible from a certain radius away but they get more static-y the farther you go. Not that they'd be useful for anything other than making sure your solar array hasn't been blown away in a dust storm, but maybe for if we get more hostile creatures.

3. Please. +1+1+1+1

4. Sort of achievable with beacons. +0.5

5. Maybe just regular colorable lights. +1

6. Not really useful if you don't get other people to play with you, and might make a beginning player waste resources. Again, its also sort of achievable with beacons. +0

7. Maybe not fixed-duration, and probably not to make a map, but repair/terraforming drones would be interesting. (especially the terraforming ones. Have one smooth out an entire area so your base can be perfectly flat?) +0.5

Nameable beacons or beacons where you can change the guitar pick's icon would be helpful as well.

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13 minutes ago, erikinthebakery said:

We can see the beacons and home beacon from space, it seems kind of silly that they are so hard to find when even a mile away.

The ability to see them from space is just to show you where you can land/where your base is (I think). They're hard to see when on the planet because of the curvature. If you climb a mountain you'll probably be able to see them again.

Of course, you could also just make tether lines to wherever you need to go... ;)

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Just now, kiefac said:

The ability to see them from space is just to show you where you can land/where your base is (I think). They're hard to see when on the planet because of the curvature. If you climb a mountain you'll probably be able to see them again.

Of course, you could also just make tether lines to wherever you need to go... ;)

They are also blocked by clouds and fade due to distance/atmosphere. Truth be told, my 21st century cell phone is better able to help me find home than my Astroneer's 25th century beacons. ;)

 

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