No to hunger


MoonManKelvin

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4 minutes ago, piespace said:

 

Actually, best way is to keep it constructive.

All the arguing in this thread is one of the things that makes me skip posts.

Perzactly. The key to creative discussion is not trashing people's ideas. It's too easy for folks to fall into the "this sucks, you suck, it's all bad, this can't work" sort of thing. Instead passing over ideas you don't like and expanding on the ones you do and, more importantly, contributing even better ideas while keeping discussion constructive.

Despite the arguing there's some really good ideas that are coming up but getting trampled by the politics. I have faith we'll move past it. We all love this game.

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2 minutes ago, ent|ty said:

Unreal.. now potions are a 'hunger mechanic'.  This is what we deal with nowadays.

Consumption is consumption, doesn't matter what it is if it must be used to maintain your health. Call it a potato or a potion, same thing.

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Just now, travin said:

Consumption is consumption, doesn't matter what it is if it must be used to maintain your health. Call it a potato or a potion, same thing.

Well, that's my point...if you use a pseudo hunger mechanic to heal yourself, you don't have a hunger mechanic, you have a healing mechanic. Doesn't matter if you use a potato or a potion.

(and I'd argue that the idea alone of "oh I'm shot, let me quickly eat a steak so I heal and don't die from the next arrow" would be pretty silly, if transferred to real life....just for those who like to argue with healing and realism for hunger mechanics at the same time)

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I've said my peace on this, I've provided multiple examples, pulling from many games, including even "Darkest Dungeon" which isn't even a survival game, yet utilizes food in a very interesting way. Of course all of this is ignored.. so those who care to learn other points of view will review these examples, and those that won't.. oh well. I'm done. Enjoy 'debating' this topic for the next 2 years.

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35 minutes ago, RustyXXL said:

Well, that's my point...if you use a pseudo hunger mechanic to heal yourself, you don't have a hunger mechanic, you have a healing mechanic. Doesn't matter if you use a potato or a potion.

(and I'd argue that the idea alone of "oh I'm shot, let me quickly eat a steak so I heal and don't die from the next arrow" would be pretty silly, if transferred to real life....just for those who like to argue with healing and realism for hunger mechanics at the same time)

You've completely lost me on "pseudo hunger mechanic" and this circular argument. It's getting a bit ridiculous. I'm done with it.

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20 minutes ago, Wyvyrias said:

Guys, please, easy here. This discussion concerns a potential core mechanic of the game, so let's not turn it into something we have to close.

Perhaps a cooling off period is in order.

Something to note, I see gp's survey shows a fair amount of interest in hunger being implemented, so there's hope.

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This thread made me dizzy with the circles it ran around in.

I personally see both sides of the discussion. Either direction wont stop me from playing this game!

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On 9.01.2017 at 5:36 AM, travin said:

Oh man, sleep is such a boring chore. No way, man. No game ever with sleep is fun.


A crazy idea came into my head. Playable dream during sleep.

Watching how the player asleep would be boring as hell but imagine that you can do some crazy things during sleep. Imagine the colorful planet with completely unrealistic physics. Even scary nightmare would be great idea.

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8 hours ago, PilotChan said:

Then why even have oxygen? thats an annoyance. why even have energy thats an annoyance aswell. actually lets just make a plain white world with just a zebra ball and call it "plain white game introducing zebra ball and astronaut"

 

on steam sale for 9.99$

Again: You don't get the points we are making.

Add hunger in the same way like oxygen doesn't add a benefit.

Add hunger as a reason to justify a farming system and to provide additional bonuses is illogical. You just don't run 50% faster or breath less because you are eating a fruit or a steak. So the farming system would be better connected with extra material to strengthen your suit or increase processes in the production system or increase battery capacity, instead of connecting it with the standard boring explaination of Hunger. It's just not logical.

Hope I could make it clear, but again a little shorter:

Additional farming system: YES! (definitely!)

Justifying them with hunger: NO!

Justifying them with more reasonable things: YES!

PS: I don't scream! Just pointing out. ;)

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5 hours ago, RustyXXL said:

(and I'd argue that the idea alone of "oh I'm shot, let me quickly eat a steak so I heal and don't die from the next arrow" would be pretty silly, if transferred to real life....just for those who like to argue with healing and realism for hunger mechanics at the same time)

Depends on timescale.  Instant gratification is demanded from most games, the quicker you get something the less realistic it becomes.

So Potion = instant

Or Potion = Heal over time (10 seconds)

Food = Heal over time or instant..

And so on.  But it's all based on sticking something somewhere.

Could also be a Heal Pack, an Injector, a Bandaid..

It's all consuming something.  Which is a hunger mechanic.

A Healing mechanic would normally be if you're healing someone else.  Casting a Healing spell..

The length of time it takes.. really related to realism..

Lets say you had to eat a meal, which consisted of several items, then you had to sleep 8 hours.

That'd be realistic, but it certainly wouldn't fulfill an instant gratification.

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21 minutes ago, nordish said:

Add hunger in the same way like oxygen doesn't add a benefit.

Add hunger as a reason to justify a farming system and to provide additional bonuses is illogical. You just don't run 50% faster or breath less because you are eating a fruit or a steak. So the farming system would be better connected with extra material to strengthen your suit or increase processes in the production system or increase battery capacity, instead of connecting it with the standard boring explanation of Hunger. It's just not logical.

Additional farming system: YES! (definitely!)

Justifying them with hunger: NO!

Justifying them with more reasonable things: YES!

Sorry, I disagree.  Eating fruit before a race does help you run faster.  I'd prefer glucose.. for that burst energy.  Instant energy.  But carbohydrates for long term energy when running is very important.   Beer is also good for cycling for example. Just.. not too much..

But, ditch realism in the respect of buffing and you can pretty much use any foodsource/drug to give a limited bonus.

Adding Hunger to a game, doesn't mean you're making it more realistic or it shouldn't.   Hunger is a timesink mechanic.  It is to force you to take time out to do something you have to do, to continue to play.  And by adding hunger in as a timesink it opens up whole areas of content, which then make common sence.

The main issue in this thread and the other one, is more about how to balance hunger, than objecting to the hunger mechanic.

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No. I have to disagree completely. 

Oxygen is already the time sink, where in other typiscal survival games you have hunger as time sink (because they have no limit on oxygen, with the exception of Subnautica where you again have the limitation of oxygen ;) ). Energy is second, but no so dramatic time sink.

The opening of whole areas of content is in no way necessarily connected with hunger. There are many more realistic reasons / explainations.

PS: As a former triathlete in my younger years I know what you are talking about by eating adds a bonus. But this has nothing to do directly with hunger! ;)  You are not running faster because you eat Glucose directly before the activity. That's complete nonsense!

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46 minutes ago, DragonAstroneer said:


A crazy idea came into my head. Playable dream during sleep.

Watching how the player asleep would be boring as hell but imagine that you can do some crazy things during sleep. Imagine the colorful planet with completely unrealistic physics. Even scary nightmare would be great idea.

Sleep could also be implemented, but not necessarily as a time sink.  I've already suggested ways to add sleep without slowing down the player in the game.  A playable game during sleep could also be fun or the ability to access a 3rd party.. maybe to use a robotic unit.. which otherwise cannot be controlled.

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Astroneer is no real life simulation!

What comes next: Building a toilet to poop?

Establishing internet connection to have access one time a day to p**nhub?

... come on. Stay well grounded.

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1 hour ago, nordish said:

You are not running faster because you eat Glucose directly before the activity. That's complete nonsense!

There's no point in trading insults.

As for the rest, so what if there's a timesink in oxygen? As pointed out, it's an almost inconsequential timesink.   The loss of time due to it is almost none existant and power, once you get a base up and running or a couple of trucks, never becomes an issue.

Hunger, would be an ongoing and continuous issue.  It could be reduced by building a decent base, bigger farms etc, but not necessarily removed.   Games need timesinks.  They need moneysinks. 

The next topic for discussion will likely be currency.  Which brings with it a whole new level of baggage.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, nordish said:

Astroneer is no real life simulation!

What comes next: Building a toilet to poop?

Establishing internet connection to have access one time a day to p**nhub?

... come on. Stay well grounded.

Everything is a limited real life simulation.  Every game has a basis in real life.  Be it in movement, in looks, in style.. there's always something that can be identified as existing in real life.  Even if it's just the morals involved. 

There's already a toilet in my games.. you land in it.  Metaphorically speaking.

Also, there's still balancing that can be added to oxygen and power sinks.  There could be pressure falloff over distance, the need to add a machine every 500m to increase air pressure, same with power to boost it over distances, or you'll find it runs out faster.

Tools could receive damage over time or wear out with use.  Requires resources to repair or make new.

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8 minutes ago, Martin said:

Everything is a limited real life simulation.  Every game has a basis in real life.  Be it in movement, in looks, in style.. there's always something that can be identified as existing in real life.  Even if it's just the morals involved. 

There's already a toilet in my games.. you land in it.  Metaphorically speaking.

Yes. You say it. Limited!

@hunger = timesink: Hunger is an unnecessary time sink. Where is the benefit? Oxygen is a time limited time sink and once you progress in the game you can bypass this most of the time if you want. That's totally fine.

It would be different with hunger. Do you honestly want to waste your time with annoying clicks to eat food after maybe 100 hours of playing this game, without any benefit to your game! This can not be your honest opinion, can it? For sure you will tell us now again, that food can add benefits like running faster (*yawn, unrealistic, illogic), but this benefit is more logical / realistically connected with something like synthesized drugs or alien plants for example from a farming mechanic, where players have the option to consume them or have the need to consume them to reach a certain level, which is not possible without consuming this material!

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If hunger was added this would basically be Minecraft: 3D Space Edition, I prefer the game without hunger. This is what makes Astroneer as it is. If hunger was implemented I would refund Astroneer, just my saying and opinion

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14 minutes ago, nordish said:

Yes. You say it. Limited!

@hunger = timesink: Hunger is an unnecessary time sink. Where is the benefit? Oxygen is a time limited time sink and once you progress in the game you can bypass this most of the time if you want. That's totally fine.

It would be different with hunger. Do you honestly want to waste your time with annoying clicks to eat food after maybe 100 hours of playing this game, without any benefit to your game! This can not be your honest opinion, can it? For sure you will tell us now again, that food can add benefits like running faster (*yawn, unrealistic, illogic), but this benefit is more logical / realistically connected with something like synthesized drugs or alien plants for example from a farming mechanic, where players have the option to consume them or have the need to consume them to reach a certain level, which is not possible without consuming this material!

Hunger doesn't give a benefit, it introduces other content that does, content that adds more benefits than what hunger takes away.   Hunger is purely a time sink.  It's to slow you down.

Yes I do.  It could be as simple as clicking on a battery and replacing it with another one.  Call it a condensed food dispenser.  Add machine to research, Food Condenser.  Add resource Food, add variations. Dairy, Fish, Meat, Grain etc.. Gremlins.. tastes like chicken.

It wouldn't make the game a drag.. no more so than refueling your spaceship.  And it would add more content, alot more, diversity into the content, which could be split into new paths in technology.  Hunger is just a basis for introducing more.

 

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27 minutes ago, Martin said:

Hunger doesn't give a benefit, it introduces other content that does, content that adds more benefits than what hunger takes away.   Hunger is purely a time sink.  It's to slow you down.

Yes I do.  It could be as simple as clicking on a battery and replacing it with another one.  Call it a condensed food dispenser.  Add machine to research, Food Condenser.  Add resource Food, add variations. Dairy, Fish, Meat, Grain etc.. Gremlins.. tastes like chicken.

It wouldn't make the game a drag.. no more so than refueling your spaceship.  And it would add more content, alot more, diversity into the content, which could be split into new paths in technology.  Hunger is just a basis for introducing more.

 

Oooh, come on. How often do we need to repeat this.

Hunger is not the necessity to introduce other content that gives benefits. You can do this with so many other, better, more logical reasons than hunger. Why do you always only use hunger to justify content and why don't you comment other proposals?

Hunger as a timesink is therefore only slowing me down without any reason or benefit. We already have oxygen and energy for this! And yes you can bypass that later in the game (if you want and of course you will want that) and that's good the way it is.

Hunger is not the necessity you see it. As you wrote: It's just a basis. Exchange it with more reasonable things like extra profit, reqrds, achievements, etc.. You can exchange that with a lot more reasons, who fits better into the game and not being a useless timesink. If SE adds hunger just for that purpose to be a cheap time sink I am very disappointed because of their lack of creativity!

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13 minutes ago, nordish said:

Oooh, come on. How often do we need to repeat this.

Hunger is not the necessity to introduce other content that gives benefits. You can do this with so many other, better, more logical reasons than hunger. Why do you always only use hunger to justify content and why don't you comment other proposals?

Hunger as a timesink is therefore only slowing me down without any reason or benefit. We already have oxygen and energy for this! And yes you can bypass that later in the game (if you want and of course you will want that) and that's good the way it is.

Hunger is not the necessity you see it. Exchange it with profit, money, achievements, etc.. You can exchange that with a lot more reasons, who fits better into the game. If SE adds hunger just for that purpose to be a cheap time sink I am very disappointed because of their lack of creativity!

hahahaa

Now we get to the crux of it..

Profit, money, currency, achievement, greed, vanity.. all stem from hunger.  Call it whatever you like. 

Lets have a Currency Sink, we'll have money, now we need a money sink, we'll call that trade loss (cost of trading) Now you can introduce Farming, to make Fibers, grow trees, make lumber.. products, sell them for money.  Use money to buy other things, which you use.  Like a new Blueprint you can't get from Research.  And using, is hunger.   Doesn't matter if you use it to make a machine you can't otherwise access.  Mining Ore and Smelting it is hunger.  The Smelter Eats Ore, Makes Food for the Printer which produces a Thing.

Essentially hunger is already in the game, it just isn't implemented as eating, drinking. 

So lets do away with Eating and Drinking, there's no longer a need to farm food.  No point in having water to drink, but, water can be used elsewhere, split H2O to make Hydrogen/Oxygen burn it as a fuel mix.  Boy, that fuel tank doesn't half eat fuel.  Oh wait.. we're not having hunger in the game, we need to get rid of fuel.. what, wait, power runs the deformer.. the deformer EATS power.. but we don't want hunger.. we must get rid of power.

Now we just have oxygen.. and what eats oxygen.. oh yeh.. the Astroneers lungs.. they eat oxygen.. better get rid of that as well. 

Time to suffocate.

Time to play in creative mode.  Because you just got rid of survival.

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1 minute ago, Martin said:

hahahaa

Now we get to the crux of it..

Profit, money, currency, achievement, greed, vanity.. all stem from hunger.  Call it whatever you like. 

Lets have a Currency Sink, we'll have money, now we need a money sink, we'll call that trade loss (cost of trading) Now you can introduce Farming, to make Fibers, grow trees, make lumber.. products, sell them for money.  Use money to buy other things, which you use.  Like a new Blueprint you can't get from Research.  And using, is hunger.   Doesn't matter if you use it to make a machine you can't otherwise access.  Mining Ore and Smelting it is hunger.  The Smelter Eats Ore, Makes Food for the Printer which produces a Thing.

Essentially hunger is already in the game, it just isn't implemented as eating, drinking. 

So lets do away with Eating and Drinking, there's no longer a need to farm food.  No point in having water to drink, but, water can be used elsewhere, split H2O to make Hydrogen/Oxygen burn it as a fuel mix.  Boy, that fuel tank doesn't half eat fuel.  Oh wait.. we're not having hunger in the game, we need to get rid of fuel.. what, wait, power runs the deformer.. the deformer EATS power.. but we don't want hunger.. we must get rid of power.

Now we just have oxygen.. and what eats oxygen.. oh yeh.. the Astroneers lungs.. they eat oxygen.. better get rid of that as well. 

Time to suffocate.

Now you are getting childish. You lost the relation ... You are not even running in circles, you are always running against "the hunger is the solution for all" wall.

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