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1 minute ago, nordish said:

Baaaah. That too cheap. Why not reduce to: We click the button of our mouse. Something is happening on the monitor. We are happy. \o/

The fact is, that hunger issue is nothing we need to advance in the game. We melt ore to produce things, which brings us further in the game. Where is this point with hunger?

You could have buffs, advanced buff, protection, adv protection.  Necessity to make foods that increase radiation protection long term allowing more spaceflights, more landings in dangerous places, perhaps throw in limited immunity to acid/gas plants and so on, the way's of implementing food is nearly inexhaustible.

Hunger doesn't need to be an end of all mechanic, it doesn't need to enforce you must do or die scenario.. although I personally think it should.

You breath or you die.

You eat or you die.

You don't need power.. just give the astroneer a shovel.

Besides, I like farming, I like crossbreeding, I like making stuff, crafting, mining.. it's all the same to me.  You could gain resources from farming necessary to making adv formulas ie types of gelatin's from seeds or types of binding cable/rope from grasses and so on. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Martin said:

You could have buffs, advanced buff, protection, adv protection.  Necessity to make foods that increase radiation protection long term allowing more spaceflights, more landings in dangerous places, perhaps throw in limited immunity to acid/gas plants and so on, the way's of implementing food is nearly inexhaustible.

Hunger doesn't need to be an end of all mechanic, it doesn't need to enforce you must do or die scenario.. although I personally think it should.

You breath or you die.

You eat or you die.

You don't need power.. just give the astroneer a shovel.

Besides, I like farming, I like crossbreeding, I like making stuff, crafting, mining.. it's all the same to me.  You could gain resources from farming necessary to making adv formulas ie types of gelatin's from seeds or types of binding cable/rope from grasses and so on. 

 

Most of this is already answered in my last post, but I want to reiterate on the buff-food point.

I'm not saying I'm against buff food. If that's the way they want to go, it's not very innovative, and I would hope for more innovation, but I'm okay with that.

I'm just saying that I see a hunger mechanic described here, would add anything more than a tedium and an excuse for farming, while farming and buff-food both being perfectly valid without the need for a hunger mechanic.

If you have a suggestion for a hunger mechanic that is more than that I'm more than open to hear that, but all the arguments I've heard so far are "we need hunger because of farming" and "we need hunger because of realism". And the last point has been adressed already as well.

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14 minutes ago, Martin said:

You could have buffs, advanced buff, protection, adv protection.  Necessity to make foods that increase radiation protection long term allowing more spaceflights, more landings in dangerous places, perhaps throw in limited immunity to acid/gas plants and so on, the way's of implementing food is nearly inexhaustible.

Hunger doesn't need to be an end of all mechanic, it doesn't need to enforce you must do or die scenario.. although I personally think it should.

You breath or you die.

You eat or you die.

You don't need power.. just give the astroneer a shovel.

Besides, I like farming, I like crossbreeding, I like making stuff, crafting, mining.. it's all the same to me.  You could gain resources from farming necessary to making adv formulas ie types of gelatin's from seeds or types of binding cable/rope from grasses and so on. 

 

No. That's just not right.

buffs (especially protection) can come from other origins, especially and more realistic from materials. Why and what does this has to do with hunger? That's just the ... sorry ... bullshit, which other boring developers have implemented to buff their "hunger" system.

Of course Hunger doesn't neet to be the end, but at the same time I don't see any sense to make it the beginning. Exception: missing creativity of the game designer.

There has been raised another, very good question: How do you eat? Just open the helmet? No. So, the only real way is to go back to your habitat and eat. Transfer food via a machine into a kind of infusion ... why adding such a stupid thing without any further benefit?

Don't get me wrong. I have no problem with Hunger itself in survival games. But for me in Astroneer it just doesn't fit or you have to modify Astroneer a lot, so Hunger fits into the gameplay and Scenario. But then it's not Astroneer really anymore.

Quote

Astroneer is set during a 25th century gold rush where players must explore the frontiers of outer space, risking their lives and resources in harsh environments for the chance of striking it rich.

On this adventure, a player’s most useful tool is their ability to shape their world, altering the terrain and extracting valuable resources from planets, and moons. Resources can be traded or crafted into new tools, vehicles, and modules to create everything from massive industrial bases to mobile rover bases.

That's not a description of a survival game where the primary task is to surviva! The primary task (RPG) is to get rich! That's why farming ressources and smelting them to build stuff or "sell" them on trading platforms totally makes sense and is not the same like feeding hunger!. Hunger for me doesn't make sense. It just doesn't fit.

Edited by nordish

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I usually like the hunger mechanic in most games that have it, but with the small amount of backpack spaces id feel like lugging them around till i need them would suck. I still believe they should add it, just hopefully with a more reasonable way of carrying the food around or something to that extent. 

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I understand what you're saying.

But I don't see the point in Farming, if you don't eat.

I don't see the point in Mining, if you don't craft.

I don't see the point in Research, if you can't create new ideas.  ie Combine old to make new.

Buffs don't need to be instant, they could be overtime.  Eating X amount of foodstuff01 gives 1% radiation protection.  Effect applied every 4 hours.  So you can only eat X amount of 01 every 4 hours to gain 1% of protection which is permanent.  To make 01 you need item 1,2,3,4,5 and so on. It's exactly the same as mining and crafting.  But it incorporates research and refinement.

But me personally.. if you farm food.. you do so because you need food.  What you can do with food, to make something else is a bonus.

 

As for how do you eat, sorry, but that seems blatantly obvious.   Intravenously. Obviously.  Put gloop into receptical, system mixes with water, pumps it directly into you.  Poop removed in the same way.. think old folks in hospitals if you want details.

Edited by Martin

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1 minute ago, Martin said:

But I don't see the point in Farming, if you don't eat.

I don't see the point in Mining, if you don't craft.

I don't see the point in Research, if you can't create new ideas.  ie Combine old to make new.

Please see above: Farming and Mining are the necessary actions to fulfill the primary task of getting rich (SE description of Astroneer on their homepage!). Eating does not!

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5 minutes ago, nordish said:

That's not a description of a survival game where the primary task is to surviva! The primary task (RPG) is to get rich! That's why farming ressources and smelting them to build stuff or "sell" them on trading platforms totally makes sense. Huger for me doesn't make sense. It just don't fit.

Ok so pretend your astroneer is a robot. That needs oxygen to move or something.   Lets just ignore reality otherwise.

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1 minute ago, Martin said:

I understand what you're saying.

But I don't see the point in Farming, if you don't eat.

I don't see the point in Mining, if you don't craft.

I don't see the point in Research, if you can't create new ideas.  ie Combine old to make new.

Buffs don't need to be instant, they could be overtime.  Eating X amount of foodstuff01 gives 1% radiation protection.  Effect applied every 4 hours.  So you can only eat X amount of 01 every 4 hours to gain 1% of protection which is permanent.  To make 01 you need item 1,2,3,4,5 and so on. It's exactly the same as mining and crafting.  But it incorporates research and refinement.

But me personally.. if you farm food.. you do so because you need food.  What you can do with food, to make something else is a bonus.

So and how does Food that gives you buffs already absolutly neccessarily require a hunger mechanic? And there you have it, farming justified without hunger.

You could farm for resources like natural carbon etc in plants that you need to build stuff - Farming justified

You could farm for resources for trading  - Farming justified

You could have the need to "support your Corporation with food" - still a indirect hunger mechanic, but it would fit Astroneer much better, but Farming justified.

You could simply farm because it is fun - Farming justified

There are plenty of ways to get away without hunger.

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1 minute ago, Martin said:

Ok so pretend your astroneer is a robot. That needs oxygen to move or something.   Lets just ignore reality otherwise.

lol. Was just typing the following in an edit:

Where is the difference to oxygen you may ask? There is no difference, but we already have oxygen as a survival aspect, while other games like Ark and Forest doesn't have oxygen, so they "need" hunger.

So still the question: Where is the point to add hunger, but not sleeping, etc.? Astroneer is not a real life simulation!

Astroneer is not a pure survival game (see SE description of their own game).

 

Edited by nordish

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@SES_Adam

As hunger-gameplay is part of your road map: Would you mind to leave a short comment on what does that mean at the moment for you and the Dev-Team?

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Food is not the only reason to farm, you could farm plants that give you components and materials, maybe resin or compound for the late game, or maybe it could give you special research items or unique materials.

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Quite honestly I would prefer an economic system, where you have to react to varying prices when selling resources by growing/mining/etc. different resources so the prices stay profitable anytime over a hunger mechanic...

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Ark and Forest do have oxygen, you just don't see people breathing it's just assumed they do.

So now you expect people to just assume they eat? Ok fair enough.

I'd personally add hunger, sleep, etc.  But I'd try to do it in a such a way, they like Subnautica you're not spending 90% of your day hunting food and cooking it.  I don't play sn because of this mechanic and I am aware there's creative modes etc.. but I don't see using a creative mode as playing a game, but as cheating if you call that playing.

Creative is just doing stuff.. it's about as boring as life can get if there's no reward for doing work.

I think that people don't feel that's won anything without challenge, but I also don't feel that challenge is necessarily enjoyment.  That people can find enjoyment in doing absolutely nothing.  Peace and Quiet.. gives me fun.  Time to relax..

So whilst I see the limitations of the various time sinks for the game, I don't see that because of the limitations the time sinks should be removed. 

If you find it boring or tedious, this could just be you saying you're finding it challenging.  Which is good.  Games should challenge you.

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Just now, RustyXXL said:

Quite honestly I would prefer an economic system, where you have to react to varying prices when selling resources by growing/mining/etc. different resources so the prices stay profitable anytime over a hunger mechanic...

Yes. Totally agree!

@pro-hunger-faction:

Look to Subnautica, a more comparable game to Astroneer than Ark and the other stuff. They don't have hunger. They just provide this as an option in hardcore mode and for me personally that would be a nice idea. But making it mandatory is a wrong way from my point of view. At the same moment oxygen is their preferred "survival limiting ressource"

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2 minutes ago, RustyXXL said:

Quite honestly I would prefer an economic system, where you have to react to varying prices when selling resources by growing/mining/etc. different resources so the prices stay profitable anytime over a hunger mechanic...

Why not have it as well as?

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1 minute ago, Martin said:

Why not have it as well as?

I already posted my points against a hunger mechanic, and I don't feel like repeating them. ;)

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2 minutes ago, nordish said:

Look to Subnautica, a more comparable game to Astroneer than Ark and the other stuff. They don't have hunger. They just provide this as an option in hardcore mode and for me personally that would be a nice idea. But making it mandatory is a wrong way from my point of view. At the same moment oxygen is their preferred "survival limiting ressource"

Haven't played it for awhile, but it sounds like they removed hunger completely.  Or you're not playing the game. But using creative.

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1 minute ago, RustyXXL said:

I already posted my points against a hunger mechanic, and I don't feel like repeating them. ;)

I give up, we're going in circles.

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Just now, Martin said:

I give up, we're going in circles.

Because my question of what it adds to the game other than a tesium without any benefit still isn't answered.

I gave plenty of points why I see farming independent of hunger, and it's already answered that realism isn't a good argument either. So as long as there is no satisfying answer to the question what it adds gameplay wise for me, my opinion will be unchanged.

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Well if you looked at the trello road map you'll see they are making a creative mode. and a survival mode. so if you dont want to worry about hunger and surviving you can play creative mode instead. some people like the challenge of managing their hunger and becoming really good at it while exploring.

2 hours ago, nordish said:

Baaaah. That too cheap. Why not reduce to: We click the button of our mouse. Something is happening on the monitor. We are happy. \o/

The fact is, that hunger issue is nothing we need to advance in the game. We melt ore to produce things, which brings us further in the game. Where is this point with hunger?

 

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hunger is basically a challenge. as for sleep it wouldnt work well in multiplayer but it could in astroneer single player. like if your flying to another planet you can put your astroneer into a deep deep sleep and they'll wake up at the planet that you chose.

Edited by PilotChan

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Hunger = Challenge

Some humans love challenge and some dont. like when you play civ v on diety mode and you actually won. you feel satisfied that you actually beat the hardest difficulty in the game. the same would go for survival mode in astroneer. if your going on a permadeath run then it would be more of a challenge. but when your at end game it would definetly feel satisfying.

 

(60thpostwoo)

Edited by PilotChan

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They could do some sort of Casual Mode vs Advance Mode?

It would realistically solve a lot of the debate, creating different experiences, however, Devs probably wouldn't have time to code for that for now. 

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3 hours ago, nordish said:

 

That's not a description of a survival game where the primary task is to surviva! The primary task (RPG) is to get rich! That's why farming ressources and smelting them to build stuff or "sell" them on trading platforms totally makes sense and is not the same like feeding hunger!. Hunger for me doesn't make sense. It just doesn't fit.

This is the single best reason to not implement an (additional) hunger mechanic.

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The problem with any survival games out there now is that they water down to a mini-game of managing multiple status bars on your screen. The actual core gameplay is a backdrop.

They take away from the game itself if you can follow that premise. Instead of playing, you log in and look at some bars on your screen and tend to focus on keeping those filled up -that's the priority. We already have that so far with O2 and energy on our packs and those two elements already provide us the ability to progress. Why do we need more? To inflate our survival epeens?

I do however, see a purpose and need to grow food that could either be traded/sold or even consumed for buffs like longer energy, air, foot speed etc that provide an alternative to always having to run around with a vehicle or provides an early-game advantage. A unique food crafting function that is based on the already established Research Module system. It sure would give a lot of extra purpose to the flora other than just for Organic power and that way, when we pull an organic node off of a tree/plant we could learn a new food recipe instead of a spaceship blueprint? hehe

I'd hate to see more bars get added tho. And with Astroneers already very awesome, unique and minimalistic interface, I can't even see where they would get added that wouldn't intrude on that -hidden or otherwise.

But hey, some people love filling up/chasing bars and having UI elements pasted all over their screens. To each their own I suppose -even though it has been done to death already.

.2¢

tl:dr

Does survival always have to imply a continuous management game of hunger, thirst etc? Or can it just be about surviving in general? Go play Inside, then rethink.

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