Petrataur

Can we talk about hunger?

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I noticed hunger/food is on the Trello. I'm not sure it's necessary for this game and want to know what others think.

I feel like hunger was cool a few years ago. Games started featuring it and it was a way to make the game feel more real. But as survival games showed that they couldn't make it more interesting than any of their predecessors, at this point it just feels like an unrewarding grind in every game that has it.

Astroneer has some of the most beautiful imagery you can find - even when running frantically from a giant dust storm slinging person-sized rocks at you. It has moments of stomach-turning dread, like realizing you've lost orientation in a cave and need to quickly figure out which way goes back to your oxygen supply. Even "fighting" gas-spitting plants by tearing them from the ground is a refreshing form of self-defense in a game.

No, the game is not dangerous or difficult enough right now. Nature needs to be meaner to us. But with all the fantastic features above, making them more deadly or more numerous would be easy, and I think it would be a better way to increase game difficulty than leaning on the "hunger crutch" that really just gives us a boring chore that we need to attend to for the entirety of the game.

What do you all think of the idea of hunger in Astroneer?

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I agree with this, I was thinking this myself..maybe add a custom game option where it can be toggled.

 

personally I love the art of the game and he cave formations specifically, I don't want to worry about a space hot dog when I'm exploring, trying to remember extra o2 tanks and batteries is worrysome enough lol

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As an addition to my OP, I want to mention that I do enjoy setting up farms in games to some degree. But it doesn't need to be a survival necessity to be fun. It can always be done, say, Terraria-style where you don't need to eat, you can just grow plants for extra crafting materials. I would enjoy it even as a non-essential type of thing just for getting myself some extra goodies.

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I agree. I just love sitting down with it and casually exploring. Besides, how are you going to eat? Hold your breath, eat the chocolate bar and put your helmet back on? I hope it stays like it is right now. Hunger and hydration has just been so overdone in most games.

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Honestly i dont think we need more things to worry about there is already power and oxygen... it would just be like every other survival game out there having to collect food and water. I dont know about anyone else but personally its getting old and i love the game the way it is.

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Yea I think there is enough to worry about as it is and soon will be even harder when they do introduce free roaming A.I. creatures which I'm sure in a game like this they will and that will be a problem in of it self to worry about let alone food so I am good without hunger

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I think it still has a place in the game if it is done like Subnautica.  That game has multiple play styles where you can be in creative (no food or drink, all blueprints acquired - AI ignores you), Freedom mode (need oxygen, no food or drink, need to collect blue prints) and survival mode (need food, drink, O2, blueprints).  Currently we are playing freedom mode in Astroneer.  That way if people want a greater challenge they can.  

I personally usually play freedom mode in subnautica because i dont want to have to worry about eating all the time, but it is good to try every now and again and those 'hardcore' people can play it how they like.   

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On 12/29/2016 at 0:47 PM, Petrataur said:

I noticed hunger/food is on the Trello. I'm not sure it's necessary for this game and want to know what others think.

I feel like hunger was cool a few years ago. Games started featuring it and it was a way to make the game feel more real. But as survival games showed that they couldn't make it more interesting than any of their predecessors, at this point it just feels like an unrewarding grind in every game that has it.

Astroneer has some of the most beautiful imagery you can find - even when running frantically from a giant dust storm slinging person-sized rocks at you. It has moments of stomach-turning dread, like realizing you've lost orientation in a cave and need to quickly figure out which way goes back to your oxygen supply. Even "fighting" gas-spitting plants by tearing them from the ground is a refreshing form of self-defense in a game.

No, the game is not dangerous or difficult enough right now. Nature needs to be meaner to us. But with all the fantastic features above, making them more deadly or more numerous would be easy, and I think it would be a better way to increase game difficulty than leaning on the "hunger crutch" that really just gives us a boring chore that we need to attend to for the entirety of the game.

What do you all think of the idea of hunger in Astroneer?

I believe that the 'hunger' in Astroneer is covered already with power needs and oxygen supply, that functions much the same as feeding oneself, but without the tedium involved.  SE could center around energy and oxygen management, making the player reliant on it, not only for life, but for fuel and materials to build other things to boost it.

For example, landing on a planet with habitat only, but having to manage the only 2 available slots between collecting power to expand, or an oxygen collector to keep the habitat pumping oxygen out to the player... as the player progresses, he can create things that boost oxygen availablity, but may also rely on oxygen as a component for something else, so must make decisions as to how to progress that way. That would surely trump pulling out a piece of pork every few minutes or so to keep the hunger bar up...

"Hunger" and survival is still a great concept, it's just that no developer has captured it in a way that is believable, or challenging, without it being outright annoying. Rust, for example seemed to be geared to being a survival game in this aspect, but as we can see now,  the early survival aspect was not fleshed out at all, and simply bypassed quickly for an FPS shooter style instead.

There are other elements that can add to survival in a more interesting way, such as nature challenges, time challenges (a planet will collide with yours very soon, a sun is going to burn out, etc), or loneliness factors like madness (as seen in Don't Starve), resource management (do I eat or do I asphyxiate), risk and reward through exploration, etc.

On 12/29/2016 at 2:06 PM, Nano said:

I think it still has a place in the game if it is done like Subnautica.  That game has multiple play styles where you can be in creative (no food or drink, all blueprints acquired - AI ignores you), Freedom mode (need oxygen, no food or drink, need to collect blue prints) and survival mode (need food, drink, O2, blueprints).  Currently we are playing freedom mode in Astroneer.  That way if people want a greater challenge they can.  

I personally usually play freedom mode in subnautica because i dont want to have to worry about eating all the time, but it is good to try every now and again and those 'hardcore' people can play it how they like.   

Many players asked for such modes in "The Long Dark", and personally I think the devs there are trying too hard to please, in order to keep that Early Access money coming in. The Long Dark was fine in its raw and difficult form, but pandering to people with minor complaints totally made me lose interest.

Look, I want to be in real danger, I want the ability to die.. I want only my wits, innovation and game intuitiveness (that I've seen in Astroneer) to get me through.

I encourage innovation and imagination, and not catering too much to the gaming community - keeping the vision, and removing tedium (like Minecraft style hunger mechanic) from the game.

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I personally would also like to see hunger left out of this game unless the guys at System Era have some innovative new way of implementing it. I agree with the sentiment that O2 and Power already serve as a resource management mechanic; piling on hunger and (presumably) thirst would, imho, detract from the real potential of this game. I think the dev's time and resources could be better spent on other features.

But my opinion is only based on how I have seen the hunger mechanic implemented in other games. If they have some brilliant new take on it and see it as a crucial part of their vision for the game, more power to them.

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I agree,
but maybe food doesn't have to be tied to hunger.
maybe you can harvest food for organic,
maybe you can do chemical science with it.
you can grow plants for oxygen or you could take the MMORPG route and use food as a buff/debuff feature.

Edited by dutch

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Have to say I agree and hope they keep hunger out, if they do I hope its a option you can turn on off. The reason I love this game is because its a chill game you can relaxe and unwind with, not many cool chill games out there.

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There's no difference between hunger and oxygen. For some reason, nobody considers needing oxygen a boring chore, but it's more critical and hugely time consuming than eating would ever be. It seems to me either you're hung up on it because of other game implementations or eating in your own life isn't a major priority. In life, eating doesn't have to be a boring chore and it doesn't in this game either.

I'm good with adding more realism complexity to the game.

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Personally I think it would be an acceptable addition as long as it isn't tedious. Taking a while to deplete and being pretty easy to maintain. Storing food in packets like power cells or filters. I think it would also be awesome if there were some effects, for example giving you a decent sprint/mobility bonus the higher quality your food is, or perhaps some better vehicle handling because your Astroneer had a good breakfast, making it worth the effort to make higher quality food as opposed to lower quality food that might give pretty negligible effects. Thus making it worth it to put in a few minutes of time to upgrade or properly maintain your food production. And assuming this can be automated as most things probably will be in the future, it wouldn't be all that annoying. That's just my opinion though, only time will tell.

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1 hour ago, travin said:

There's no difference between hunger and oxygen. For some reason, nobody considers needing oxygen a boring chore, but it's more critical and hugely time consuming than eating would ever be. It seems to me either you're hung up on it because of other game implementations or eating in your own life isn't a major priority. In life, eating doesn't have to be a boring chore and it doesn't in this game either.

I'm good with adding more realism complexity to the game.

 
 

I disagree,
I don't think adding a food bar would make anything better, it takes my out of the game even.

for food you either need to hunt or farm both are boring repetitive tasks.
I don't have a bar for food in real life. (unless it's a chocolate bar)
just imagine your exploring something beautiful just looking around and then all the sudden you take damage first thing you do is look around if there are any plants around nothing you take more damage. then it strikes you oh I'm hungry... it's just this annoying poke in your side.
I don't know how food is imagined but my guess is that it would take up an inventory slot which could have been used for something else.
I haven't seen a game where food isn't just an annoying thing you have to worry about 

it makes sense to have an oxygen bar since your on a foreign planet and it adds to the game
having an oxygen bar makes sense since you have a tank of it that depletes when breathing 
you don't need to press a button to breathe and with food, you do need to press a button to eat (its a small thing but it makes a big difference).
you only have to place the tethers down once and never have to worry about it again as with food it's constantly hunting you down.


 

Edited by dutch

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yes, there shouldn't be any hunger system. this is my opinion.

1.There is already something to worry about. The first oxygen, however the oxygen is infinite in the range of Tenet or any other oxygen source, but to explore, you worth to risk. The second the energy, where all feature in the game uses energy. I hope you guys already know that even if there is hunger, it's rare to die by hunger. Same thing here you don't die but you need to feed the feature in some ways, but it just not yourself. So there is already hunger system to run the system, but it just not yourself that get feed.

2.The inventory, as you guys feel, the inventory saves only one object each space, and there isn't really a way to put all the resource together already, and putting more resource to make you alive from hunger? and more resource in small compact inventory for later use?, that is too much to care and inventory waste. And only way to make the food is plants in the planet. where you gather all the plant and make a food out of it like ore. Well the point of game is gather ore and keep upgrade what you have. If hunger comes in, I need to gather the plants where isn't the goal of the game and wasting the time.

3.Animation could not be done.(think logically, more animation = more loading = more data use)

4.Game goal is upgrading the features in the game, not wasting time on the food gathering and alive and go for next food gathering.'

this is why I disagree

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9 hours ago, dutch said:

[snip]

I don't have a bar for food in real life. (unless it's a chocolate bar)

[snip]

 

This is the point where your argument breaks down, because in real life you don't have an oxygen bar either. It's automatic, you don't have to even think about it. But in this game, oxygen, in space where it is presumably in short supply, is lifeblood, literally. And so, there's a bar for it and it must be maintained. This game is about survival in foreign space environments.

And in real life you do have "a bar for food", it's called hunger. Space doesn't provide food, you have to find or make it to survive, just like oxygen.

Edited by travin

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8 hours ago, travin said:

This is the point where your argument breaks down, because in real life you don't have an oxygen bar either. It's automatic, you don't have to even think about it. But in this game, oxygen, in space where it is presumably in short supply, is lifeblood, literally. And so, there's a bar for it and it must be maintained. This game is about survival in foreign space environments.

And in real life you do have "a bar for food", it's called hunger. Space doesn't provide food, you have to find or make it to survive, just like oxygen.

Good point, however I feel like the main problem many people have is that they think hunger is inherently a bad thing to have in a game. That's because many games do it very poorly, making it tedious and with no real benefit other than not dying. It swiftly becomes something to fill time and slow you down from getting to the fun parts of the game. This can be avoided in many ways, and as I posted previously on this thread, I think they could give benefits to having your character eating well. While they obviously have bigger fish to fry, hunger is something that is certainly on the table for the future, and may or may not become a reality for Astroneer. 

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I think it could be done well and be nice addition to the other resource management that makes this game fun. I don't eat as often as I breathe, so I don't imagine they'd make it some repetitive boring task, but it might help to make it more difficult to colonize every planet by adding more timers on how quickly you need to get something done. You can't just take 7 days setting up a base farming fuel when power is in short supply because you'll starve. I think it'll be a great addition to add in some realistic pressure to getting things done efficiently/effectively.

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2 hours ago, Commander John said:

That's because many games do it very poorly, making it tedious and with no real benefit other than not dying.

How is this different than needing oxygen?

Obtaining and maintain an oxygen supply is the single most challenging aspect, and primary driver, of the game. But I don't see anyone complaining about it. You'd double over laughing if they did. The same applies to the need for food.

Other than that, I think the developers deserve some credit, and slack, for knowing how to put together a most excellent game. Personal baggage from other software isn't supportive.

Edited by travin

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If you really want to do the whole food thing as a way to chalange your self, then try the game without tethers or rovers ,filters or other related items. If it is a task you want then try to mine all the minerals in your area then all the research items and store them on the surface next to your base, ( a good storm will keep you buzy for a long time)> Food has its place in games can we try one that oes not include that for a while Please?

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I'd like to see hunger and water management in Astroneer.

But I agree it would perhaps suit a harder difficulty level.

I'd prefer to see it amalgamated, ie you have a single food/water supply.  With different foods offering more/less food/water.  You'd need to have an easily available starting farm/hydroponics module tho.  I'd also not have issues with a health bar and repair/health kits.

Maybe an expanded backpack/bigger robotic suit. Maybe capable of carrying different tool setups.

Food management would also give you a different kind of power management to deal with, like a power trickle, the need for batteries, wind turbines etc. With continuous power usage. 

Could perhaps add in lighting for nighttime and for caves for further continuous power management.

Edited by Martin

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I've noticed when you gather oxygen there seems to be a slight charge of power to the backpack battery. Food could act the same way. If you gather organics maybe there could be an increase of sustenance. Gathering organics is automatically converted to food and water. 

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