Faolan

Research objects: too good?

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When I first started playing Astroneer, I came in late alpha. I came in at 0.10.5 and at this time the game was very diffrent in the way or getting research and earning bytes. If memory serves you could only research large objects in the research chamber, You could not research small objects or small exo objects. Only large objects. You could still scan the small research objects and get 20-30 bytes or so. But large research was the way to go. And small exo objects awarded 250-300 bytes.

Now jump to 1.0.0 and the game changed massively, in all areas, but specially in the reseacrh department. Now ALL reseach objects can be used in the RSC, And doing so generally awrds you with 4x the bytes then scanning them. Ofcourse large objects can only be used with the RSC. And this is all fine and good. Untill you leave Sylva for the first time. You see as you explore and go to further planets, The amount of bytes changes per planet. The further you go, the more bytes you can get through research. Lets look at Desolo for a example. A large object can give around 750 bytes, while a small object nets you around 100-130 bytes.

This creates a issue with the system, thats only noticable the further out you get. Planets like GLACIO. Once you get to Glacio, you will instantly see the issue. All small research objects that can be found in caves will give you around 350 bytes each. While some of the large objects can yeild 3,000 bytes. Here is the issue, The large objets take 30 to 44 real minutes to research in the RSC. And its not always going to be alot, most start out giveing 20-30 bytes Per minute or B p/m. But small research objects RESPAWN every 3 minutes. And these are EVERYWHERE!

You will quickly learn that small research object are the bes way to earn alot of bytes very quickly. In the same time it takes to reseacrh one large object, you can earn 10.5-15.4 TIMES MORE bytes just by scanning small objects. If each small object is 350 bytes, and you collect three of them, you just earnd 1,050 bytes, wait 3 minutes they respwn, another 1,050 bytes. Thats 2,100, another 3 minutes, another 1,050 byets. You now have 3,150 bytes in 9 minutes. meanwhile the same amount from that large reseach object, still has 35 minutes to go before you have that full 3,000 bytes. If you keep scanning small objects, by the time the large object is done, you will have 15,750 ish bytes just from scanning 3 small objects every 3 minutes.

I don't know about you, but if you ask me, thats broken. This basic trick reners the RSC and ALL large objects completely and utterly useless as soon as you have a small shuttle and a thruster. Because once you have those two things, you can go staright to Glacio, and start farming small RS objects. Now you're probably thinking, No i cant. I have no way of exploring caves. And if you are thinking this, you are 100% wrong. The game startes you out with a oxygenator, and its removable, and it fits in you're shuttle and can be taken off world. And you can gather compound and make tether bundles on sylva with relitve ease. So literally all you have to do, is take you're starting oxygenator, throu it on you're shuttle, grab some tethers, leave, go to glacio, land, drop teathers, find a cave, and start farming.

Granted you will need a smelter, But thats ALL you will need. And you only need it to smelt 3 aluminum. 2 for he shuttle, and 1 for the thruster.

So with all this out there, I honestly think ERA needs to take another look at research, Cause while I don;t mind being able to speed run through research, kinda defeats the purpose of LRSO and the RSC. So they could either reduce SRSO to give less bytes, make them no longer respawn, or significantly reduce the time it takes to research large objects. Something you spent bytes on, spent materials on, and spent time to aquire, should never become useless and obsolete. And thats exactly what the RSC is. Its only viability is early game, Only because RSO on sylva suck. Large objects = 350 bytes, small objects 16-60 bytes.

If you have thoughts on this id love to hear them, Also ERA if you're reading this, dont kill me please.

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Personally I don't think the small research items should respawn. They're nice treats to stumble upon while exploring, but shouldn't be farmable.

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3 hours ago, Syro said:

Personally I don't think the small research items should respawn. They're nice treats to stumble upon while exploring, but shouldn't be farmable.

Well that is the beauty of them, they don't have to be farmed. Only farmers can farm. If someone does not want to use them then just walk on by.

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On 2/27/2019 at 2:58 PM, Faolan said:

This basic trick reners the RSC and ALL large objects completely and utterly useless as soon as you have a small shuttle and a thruster. Because once you have those two things, you can go staright to Glacio, and start farming small RS objects.

Everyone can play the game however they want. If you choose to do this and it ruins your experience afterwards, it's your own fault...

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Just now, vvhorus said:

Everyone can play the game however they want. If you choose to do this and it ruins your experience afterwards, it's your own fault...

Just knowing it is this easy ruins the experience for many. The idea of artificially restricting yourself and enjoying the resulting playstyle absolutely doesnt work for everyone.

Edited by Hermann

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12 minutes ago, Hermann said:

The idea of artificially restricting yourself and enjoying the resulting playstyle absolutely doesnt work for everyone.

How are they mutually exclusive? I don't press "F" when passing a farmable and somehow I'm incapable of enjoying the game?
I've walked by thousands upon thousands of resources that I did not farm. How did that make the game unenjoyable? 
 

Am I missing something? I must be.

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Please don't start the nerf train on this game too. The beauty of this game is there are multiple play styles to choose from and you can pick one or try them all.

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My argument is that these items ae vastly better then large research objects. And there available from the very begining of the gaame. With hese small RSO being so good at giving bytes. I honestly feel that the RSC is useless. I started to research a object I got from Glacio that gives 3,450 bytes. To do so will take 55 real minutes. Imsorry but not sorry, But thats WAY to long, Not when getting small RSO can get you that in 5 minutes. I would even argue astronium is too good, But aleast that you have to dig for it.

As for this

On 2/28/2019 at 4:47 PM, The Touch of Grey Gamer said:

How are they mutually exclusive? I don't press "F" when passing a farmable and somehow I'm incapable of enjoying the game?
I've walked by thousands upon thousands of resources that I did not farm. How did that make the game unenjoyable? 
 

Am I missing something? I must be.

Heres the thing, This method makes a crucial part of the game essentially useless. Lets say you're a new player, just got the game, and learned that hay I can skip all this nonesense of haveing to wait hours to get to what I want, just by going here and scanning these items. After 1 hour half of the games progression has been unlocked. This my friend is a gameplay flaw. This will be a bad analogy, but its kinda like haveing a friend in COD or BF be on the enemy team, and let you kill them repeatedly. This is called boosting. And its highly frowned apon.

Thats basically what this is.

I just personally dont think that something in the game should be totally irrelevent after 1 hour. Thats why I said if they do anything just cut down the research times for large RSO. The fact hat it takes a hour to get bytes for some of these makes some grinding games look like a saint. And im not even going to touch the astronium thing. just because it is broken. But it might change when and if i ever becomes needed in something. (it should be a fuel source for the RTG lol)

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Posted (edited)

I signed up intending to make a similar post, yours is much more thorough than mine would have been! 

 

All through the pre release research kept changing. SE tried many things with it, but the research was always important. I don't understand why they settled on  the current system, it's horrible. Why bother going out and collecting big pieces of research which will be worth between 300-500 bytes? We need multiple research platforms, plenty of power, time to go collect and bring back the samples, it's a lot of effort for little return. 

 

Research that grows and respawns is so much more efficient to go after. I can follow tethers through my nearest cave and collect about 3k bytes in 5 minutes, making the big research completely pointless. And by the time I'm walking back out of the cave the bytes near the beginning have already respawned! I even stopped bothering to bring a piece of big research with me on my way out the cave, walking slower on the way out isn't worth 300 bytes. 

 

The development team spent so long changing how research worked, why did they ignore all of that testing for the final game? 

Plus the catalogue isn't clear for someone who's played every single stage of the pre release. How is someone who's never played before going to work it out, without breaking immersion and going online to check what to research next? Ok I looked up what an RTG is but why should I have to? There should be a prompt somewhere explaining items in the catalogue, unless I've missed that somewhere. 

 

I haven't tried the method you mentioned Faolan  - it's a more advanced version of my byte collecting and sounds even more stupidly overpowered. 

Edited by TheLastQuestion

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On 2/28/2019 at 8:05 AM, Syro said:

Personally I don't think the small research items should respawn. They're nice treats to stumble upon while exploring, but shouldn't be farmable.

Those on plants or rock formations do.

On 2/27/2019 at 7:58 PM, Faolan said:

Now ALL reseach objects can be used in the RSC, And doing so generally awrds you with 4x the bytes then scanning them.

3x not 4x. Even with that it is seldom worth it on a b/m basis.

 

On 3/1/2019 at 11:29 PM, Faolan said:

I just personally dont think that something in the game should be totally irrelevent after 1 hour.

Unless you're playing competitively how does it matter? In your analogy you mention competitive PvP games, sure it's frowned on there, I'd imagine that in some cases its bannable you're breaking the curve by cheating. In this game if you want to get all your research from large objects in the Research Chamber is anyone going to stop you? If you want to religiously pick-up and scan (or even research) all of the small items you can. It's your choice. Personally I start out with Sphalerite (Zinc) until I have Astronium, and if I get big research items with a decent B/m I do them too, but that doesn't prevent me from doing it differently in my next save...

 

On 2/28/2019 at 9:33 PM, Hermann said:

Just knowing it is this easy ruins the experience for many.

So lock the game down to a single path so that they don't feel it's too easy? Maybe they should stick to Rock, Paper & Scissors...

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On 3/1/2019 at 6:29 PM, Faolan said:

 

Heres the thing, This method makes a crucial part of the game essentially useless. Lets say you're a new player, just got the game, and learned that hay I can skip all this nonesense of haveing to wait hours to get to what I want, just by going here and scanning these items. After 1 hour half of the games progression has been unlocked. This my friend is a gameplay flaw. This will be a bad analogy, but its kinda like haveing a friend in COD or BF be on the enemy team, and let you kill them repeatedly. This is called boosting. And its highly frowned apon.

Ok, first what do you mean when you post "that I can skip of having to wait hours to get what I want by going here and scanning these items? I have no idea what you mean here.

Thats basically what this is.

I just personally dont think that something in the game should be totally irrelevent after 1 hour. Thats why I said if they do anything just cut down the research times for large RSO. The fact hat it takes a hour to get bytes for some of these makes some grinding games look like a saint. And im not even going to touch the astronium thing. just because it is broken. But it might change when and if i ever becomes needed in something. (it should be a fuel source for the RTG lol)

How does it take you an hour? Are you using just one research chamber? 
And again, I'm really lost with regard to the points you are trying to make. I'm sure they are valid however I can't figure them out, sorry.

 

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12 hours ago, lost.ninja said:
On 2/28/2019 at 10:33 PM, Hermann said:

Just knowing it is this easy ruins the experience for many.

So lock the game down to a single path so that they don't feel it's too easy? Maybe they should stick to Rock, Paper & Scissors...

Absolutely not. Not talking about removing paths. Just making them relatively balanced, so that one doesnt outperform the other tenfold.

12 hours ago, lost.ninja said:
On 3/2/2019 at 12:29 AM, Faolan said:

I just personally dont think that something in the game should be totally irrelevent after 1 hour.

Unless you're playing competitively how does it matter? In your analogy you mention competitive PvP games, sure it's frowned on there, I'd imagine that in some cases its bannable you're breaking the curve by cheating. In this game if you want to get all your research from large objects in the Research Chamber is anyone going to stop you? If you want to religiously pick-up and scan (or even research) all of the small items you can. It's your choice. Personally I start out with Sphalerite (Zinc) until I have Astronium, and if I get big research items with a decent B/m I do them too, but that doesn't prevent me from doing it differently in my next save...

Just because it isnt competitive PVP doesnt automatically mean anything and all passes as good game design.

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This is another thread where people have different play styles and game expectations.  I still argue highly that the game should allow the player to dial the changes in play to whatever setting they'd like.  Turn on or off respawn of research items, etc etc.  This is the biggest missing feature of this game.

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On 2/28/2019 at 4:33 PM, Hermann said:

Just knowing it is this easy ruins the experience for many. The idea of artificially restricting yourself and enjoying the resulting playstyle absolutely doesnt work for everyone.

If people have no self-control, that's another issue entirely. I don't go buying everything I see just because it's on sale, nor click on every spam email I get, etc...

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