Ishtu

The Exchange platform "breaks" the game

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I would think that the trade platform/fuel condenser piece is more of a placeholder/creative mode in a pre alpha game.  Something to allow players to experience all the game has to offer without forcing a long build up.  If this were a feature complete beta, I would be more concerned with the ease of it, but for now, I'll just enjoy this very early look at a great game to come.

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It's not gamebreaking right now in the games current state. If you consider collecting X amount of resources as winning or end-game, then don't use it.

But, if they add in food, farming, player trading and a player driven economy like their roadmap says; then yes, it's too strong.

Not sure why Astroneer needs all that to begin with...

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I actually like the exchanger but I'd posit that it would be best to not allow you to exchange resources that you haven't discovered yet. I can exchange resources for coal but I haven't seen any coal in the world I'm on. It seems a little easy to just make the exchanger and then fill it up with garbage resources to get something good from it. Just my opinion

Edit: Never mind, it seems that coal takes high value items to exchange. Curses

Edited by Rolvaag

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i also think that the exchanger its too op... once u upgrade full ur first base u only need to carry the minimun resources to build fuel-station, printer and exchanger to another planet and u can easily upgrade another base in lees than 1 hour. 

28hours played

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On 17.12.2016 at 6:27 AM, webluke said:

I also discovered this imbalance with fuel as I was in need of compound in a bad way and just tried fuel to find out it was balanced wrong. Because you can basically make resources for "free" it is handy but I did just want to farm fuel for a while to get some things going that took copper (hard to find). I think because it is so "common" giving it a "value" of 1 or 1 compound would make it so that the balance is better, except there could be some kind of "Apple App Store" 20-30% cut for the trade. Real life commision shops do this type of thing. I also think the trade ship should use fuel or at least a large amount of power only to recharge after the ship comes back.

Lord you can understand that it is prealfa ,so until this bug is useful

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1 hour ago, Nafen said:

Nice to see that the same non-arguments being used in this thread as well xD 

Non argument as in it 'breaks' a non-competitive sandbox game that you can play however you want? ;3

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I like the trade platform, and love the idea that you could specialise in collecting certain things instead of sourcing everything yourself, however the costs are flawed, and I've came up with a fix!

 It being trade it would make sense if the "value" of things were based on what was most or least in demand by the players themselves! By basing the "value" of minerals on how much people want them it would automatically balance itself 100% accurately!

If everyone takes up generating fuel for nothing and selling it then it will become the cheapest nugget, or perhaps necking it with organic! Even if you like playing the purest trading game this would be an epic improvement, since it would be about making the most of what is unique about your seed of a planet and buying and selling depending on demand!

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I think that they should leave the trading station as is for now in pre-alpha and early alpha stages, because this allows us to test more easily what game offers and after a map reboot get back quickly to where we were. Also Astronium can't be traded on the Trade Platform so I assume just the basic mats will be available for trade on that platform in the future.

But to be honest, I think that it's not the trading station, that is OP, but the Fuel Condenser, since it's making fuel from thin air basically. Once you have enough power to your base with solar and batteries, you have infinite fuel for your transportation. I would rather have it to condense and use a resource - fuel and make it more efficient with using the electricity. For example, it could make from one fuel bottle an improved version, that would yield twice as much fuel when connected to the spaceship or whatever. It could have a different tint to it so you can distinguish the fuel cells.

Edited by Subquake

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(Acknowledging 'Pre-Alpha' status aside...) I too have just stumbled on what-feels-like 'exploit' of the Power Source + Trade Platform + Fuel Condenser. I'd only colonised Terran & Barren up to now and after unlocking a habitat and making my first alternate outpost on Barren, resource rationing forced me to thing down this path.

At first I was happy/surprised, but then it occurred to me that i could set up a completely new output on Exotic with a Spaceship of just the right mix of materials in a single trip.

I've now got a fully operational base, all without stepping foot outside the original 'blue landing bubble' and collecting a single native resource.

I gotta say that regardless of intention, I feel this is cheating, or at least too easy to build an entire base and  'magic' up resources all from the 'panopticon' of my habitat module.

Whilst I take people's point about certain planet completely void of certain resources, it should be much take much longer than 30-45 minutes to build a complete base this way IMHO.

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I think everybody keeps getting worked up over semantics in this thread. It's not the trade platform itself, it's the value of "free" fuel as a commodity. 

 

In my experience beta testing several games, developers often stick "exploits" like this on purpose to help testers push along quicker. Especially in multi-stage survival games such as this, it could potentially take a long time to advance further in the game than if the developers were to stick bonus items within containers, or introduce exploits such as this. of course, i doubt it's intentional, but it's completely beneficial to the testing of the game.

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To be honest the first game i played i had built the trade platform on my 'earth' base and one on the moon base thinking i could load it up with resin, fly to the moon base and collect the transferred resources (saving me from searching for it).  It made total sense to me until i tried it to transfer things between my bases and i noticed my error - was rather crushed.  But I kind of wish it would transfer between bases, then there would be no exploiting of the fuel condensor as you would have had to find the resources yourself.  Then certain planets could have specialties.  Which would be cool.     

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17 minutes ago, Nano said:

To be honest the first game i played i had built the trade platform on my 'earth' base and one on the moon base thinking i could load it up with resin, fly to the moon base and collect the transferred resources (saving me from searching for it).  It made total sense to me until i tried it to transfer things between my bases and i noticed my error - was rather crushed.  But I kind of wish it would transfer between bases, then there would be no exploiting of the fuel condensor as you would have had to find the resources yourself.  Then certain planets could have specialties.  Which would be cool.     

You know you can transfer resources between bases with the shuttle and spaceship right? Load up a space craft with resources on a planet where they are plentiful then take off and land on the planet where you need them, offload them there and then go back and rinse and repeat. Somehow nobody really mentions this as a viable option for building up new bases because they're too reliant on the whole infinite fuel into infinite resources thing rather than using the fuel to, you know, travel?

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Well it seems like some people have an extremely intense need to express their opinion on this. I think the devs should look into this. I agree that people should have multiple ways to play and if being a trader is your fancy then by all means we should try to accommodate you! So in the spirit of that sentiment I would say I don't think trade is very fun or competitive trading when all you do trade wise is "Send resources to the man in the sky and get unlimited back." In my opinion, trade is fun when you have to actually manage resources and trade to others to make a profit. You need supply and demand. Without that I don't see a point in trading. I would suggest we keep trade as a part of the game for people who enjoy that but it needs to be naturally driven trade not just "Here is the base value and spreadsheet for what resources get you what." That assumes everything is unlimited and, in my opinion isn't really that engaging, it's like grinding tokens in WoW. Real trade doesn't work that way and I would site a successful trade system like EVE as a model to strive for if trade is your game. 

Edited by Zander

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10 minutes ago, Zander said:

Well it seems like some people have an extremely intense need to express their opinion on this. I think the devs should look into this. I agree that people should have multiple ways to play and if being a trader is your fancy then by all means we should try to accommodate you! So in the spirit of that sentiment I would say I don't think trade is very fun or competitive trading when all you do trade wise is "Send resources to the man in the sky and get unlimited back." In my opinion, trade is fun when you have to actually manage resources and trade to others to make a profit. You need supply and demand. Without that I don't see a point in trading. I would suggest we keep trade as a part of the game for people who enjoy that but it needs to be naturally driven trade not just "Here is the base value and spreadsheet for what resources get you what." That assumes everything is unlimited and, in my opinion isn't really that engaging, it's like grinding tokens in WoW. Real trade doesn't work that way and I would site a successful trade system like EVE as a model to strive for if trade is your game. 

They are and a patch to fix it is in beta on steam, 

 

"

  • Cut the value of Fuel in the trade module by half
  • Increase the amount of time a trade takes on the trade module
  • Double the power requirement and production time of the Condenser (Probably more we should do here to make it even less OP, will consider changing up the fuel mechanic in the future)

"

 

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@TCrunaway Awesome! Thanks for pointing me to that. This is why I love them :P On the ball. I guess I was just throwing my thoughts into the mix for the future :) 

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On 12/17/2016 at 5:07 PM, Tomash said:

Some common resources are rare in other planets? Then change the price according to rarity! Make prices in Trade Platform unique for each type of planet, depending on mineral abundance. Just like in real life - market economy, baby ;-) But nerf that Fuel Condenser, this thing causes all the trouble, not Trade Platform.

@Tomash

This is key! This should make everyone happy.

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8 hours ago, Nafen said:

You know you can transfer resources between bases with the shuttle and spaceship right? Load up a space craft with resources on a planet where they are plentiful then take off and land on the planet where you need them, offload them there and then go back and rinse and repeat. Somehow nobody really mentions this as a viable option for building up new bases because they're too reliant on the whole infinite fuel into infinite resources thing rather than using the fuel to, you know, travel?

I am aware you can do that.  I have been taking the 32 items stacked on the large shuttle to other planets, but i always seem to run out of Resin or compound - and on the Arid planet with the spiky balls flying around i could not find any Resin and had not managed to build a habitat/cabin/rover yet, so finding the base again would have been hard (no marker).  

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I rewrite my thoughts about this:

2 minutes ago, atrip3 said:

Why changing? If you don't like this way, don't follow it. I don't understand why all is complaining about that. I built a vehicle too and I went exploring and gathering resources, so it doesn't break the experience, but it enhances, makes me free to choose how to find resources.

 

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17 hours ago, Nano said:

I am aware you can do that.  I have been taking the 32 items stacked on the large shuttle to other planets, but i always seem to run out of Resin or compound - and on the Arid planet with the spiky balls flying around i could not find any Resin and had not managed to build a habitat/cabin/rover yet, so finding the base again would have been hard (no marker).  

What about a beacon? Honestly the first time I landed on a new planet and then eventually decided to go home to resupply with resources I did so without the forethought to leave something that would leave a waypoint, but I eventually found the right landing spot again through trial and error just picking landing sites that looked sort of like the one I chose the first time (I chose to land just next to an icy mountain on the Tundra planet). A beacon is a really cheap tool and might still work from orbit since you have a clear view of the planet :/ 

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7 hours ago, Nafen said:

What about a beacon? Honestly the first time I landed on a new planet and then eventually decided to go home to resupply with resources I did so without the forethought to leave something that would leave a waypoint, but I eventually found the right landing spot again through trial and error just picking landing sites that looked sort of like the one I chose the first time (I chose to land just next to an icy mountain on the Tundra planet). A beacon is a really cheap tool and might still work from orbit since you have a clear view of the planet :/ 

Well, now i feel stupid.  I had not even thought to use the beacon.  Thanks. 

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Well, I think you have just figured out how power plants with solar panels and wind turbines work: they make out energy from thin air.  While there is no money in the game, you exchange energy for resources. As well as power plants make more money than they need for running the part is used for investments. 

In the end I'm not really sure how the trading platform would break the game. There isn't any way to win the game and there is no permadeath. So in the end you could just stay in your pod from start, never step on the planet, never die and stay alive forever, that would be the safest way to "thrive". The point of the game is to play around, you can play one game expanding you power plant to massive energy trading station and in the other planet you could find a big solar panel wreckage and start building your empire from that. 

As someone stated it's up to you how you play the game. I personally don't really use trading platform for anything else than cleaning up my base from extra resources I'm not really needing. Even if something like massive fuel trading can be done it doesn't mean it has to be done. You don't always have to play the optimal way, there isn't score or winning. 

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On 12/17/2016 at 10:19 PM, Slywyn said:

A system that you can choose not to use.

You can play the game however you like.

If you don't like the trade platform/fuel condenser, then don't use it.

It is that simple.

This isn't a competitive game. What other people do literally does not matter to you in the slightest.

This is an excellent point. Beyond the fact that this is alpha and the system can always be changed or tweaked as time goes on, one cannot consider this gamebreaking on the basis of this being a discovery game without considering a person's access to the internet to be gamebreaking, as well.  By that measure the gamepedia wiki is far more "damaging" to purist discovery gameplay than something like this, especially when one takes into account that playing the market game the player learns nothing outside it, and reading the wiki, the player learns every secret the game had to offer. 

Minecraft Creative Mode and Fallout/Skyrim console mode are examples of ways that players can, if they choose, bypass the discovery system or just get some help here and there.. Whatever the case, with a game like this, it's not a matter of IF your discovery system will get bypassed, but HOW. When you look at it that way, you design very differently, and often create a better game.

 

 

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