Shadow Echo

[Merged] Discussion about comprehensive patch notes/Discord/etc

Wyvyrias

Certain replies from the "The Crafting Update" patch note thread have been merged in here to let people continue the discussion without having to "censor" anything. Since this discussion was too much for patch note comments, I think this is the best solution. Excuse if replies that included questions about the patch notes, not related to this discussion, were merged in here as well. I can't micro manage every reply to split and edit it.

Your feedback is appreciated.

PS: I've created this thread, but due to chronological rules, the oldest reply will appear as #1. The "first" user in this thread is not it's creator.

Message added by Wyvyrias

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Or those here who don’t like reading my lengthy posts: don’t then. This is for the Devs anyway. Just skip on by...

As usual, the Patch Notes aren’t as thorough as they should be. Sure they highlight most major things, but it’d be nice to see y’all work towards covering each update in a far more comprehensive fashion. One example I can give (this is skippable: I must say though I haven’t checked the patch notes for the game I’m going to mention lately because I’ve avoided playing it; like many others I’ve hoped the Devs would come to their senses after forcing a horrible cursor-based UI system on console players, it’s so bad it almost broke the entire UI and the subsequent “fixes” have been nothing more than piss-poor compromises, but I digress) is Warframe by Digital Extremes. Check their Patch Notes. They do an admirable job of covering EVERYTHING they touch, from UI to gameplay, balances, tweaks, you name it. Even better, they make it 100% understandable, no complex, technical language, no need for a degree in programming, any of that stuff required to understand what they’re telling you. They’re not afraid to say “That weirdness that sometimes happened on spawn into Corpus Space tilesets? Fixed!” If it’s “weirdness” that happened and they fixed it? They’re unafraid to say so. It works out fine too because if you play the game, you know exactly what they’re talking about. I know it sounds incredibly ambiguous but it’s not (I’m using a made up example ok, so of course it sounds stupid). All I’m trying to say, Devs please don’t use words that a fair number of your players aren’t likely to know. They certainly aren’t going to look them up, I guarantee it. Would you rather they read the Notes and understand what info you’re trying to convey, or feel alienated and frustrated? I still don’t know what a voxel is (Patch Notes from over a year ago I think). I remember mentioning this to Adam a long time ago, he said he’d try to work on it. I’m sure Adam is incredibly busy now, and idk if he’s even involved with writing Patch Notes anymore :P  I might know what a voxel is, but I don’t care whether I do or don’t I’m certainly not worried about it and it doesn’t affect how much I enjoy playing Astroneer. When in doubt, choose more commonly known and understood terms (or use more extensive descriptions). Don’t get hung up on technical language. Right now, the forum has a large representation of PC players, but there are a lot of Xbox One players as well (they’re underrepresented on the forum). It would be a mistake to say console players are less intelligent. Less exposed to technical terms perhaps. Using language every player finds comprehensible is not only good practice, its crucial for keeping all players informed once the game enters full release and many new players join in the fun. It can be very offputting to see a bunch of technical terms in the Notes. Players may get the idea the Devs are snobbish and don’t care about them, that they only cater to technilogically sophisticated adult players while ostracizing players who lean more towards one end of the age spectrum (younger or older players), those who play more casually, families with kids, or those with various issues of accessibility (I haven’t really mentioned this, but the game does have some issues and I hope the Devs will work towards making the game more accessible for those who have issues with hearing, low vision, and other issues of accessibility-there are some great YouTube series about accessibility in gaming but I won’t go into all that here). Be more descriptive about what you’re fixing. Another thing that’s helpful which many games do as well in their Patch Notes is separate out stuff that’s platform specific. It looks cleaner and prevents confusion. Best I understand, the game is currently developed and released in same version for PC and Xbox. I guess all the coding for each platform is in there, but only the part relevant to your platform “runs” something like that. As the game grows in popularity, who knows, it may not always be like that. Best start now separating some things out imho (really it would only apply for bugfixes at the moment, best I can tell, but that’s alright it’s gives you a good opportunity to slowly transition to this method). For this update a good example exists (under bugfixes) the Control + Click part. Obviously that’s for PC players only. It’s up to you if you’d like to have a General Fixes section, then list any subsequent platform specific fixes (if there are any in a given update) afterwards, or you could always list them by platform so there’d always be PC Fixes and Xbox One Fixes (I don’t think this would be best, because anything that affects all platforms, which potentially could be the majority of fixed, would require listing twice not to mention when new platforms are added it would be a lot more listings as well). The bottom line: if you play on a specific platform, you shouldn’t have to read through a list of fixes that don’t affect you. Separate out ones that are specific to a platform and your players will thank you (ok they probably won’t say it out loud, but just imagine them saying it silently in their hearts, thats what matters right?)

Ok, here’s my point I came here to make (I just started playing the update, I’m sure there’ll be more).

Why did you change the default medium platform? You didn’t even mention that? I consider that to be a VERY BIG DEAL (it might be a big deal to others as well). Never assume any change, however small you think it is, won’t affect a person’s gameplay or think it’s insignificant. Ever since the Basebuilding Update last December I’ve used an even mix of medium A’s and large A’s around my base (encircling the hard terrain and central hab). The fact you SWITCHED Medium A out for Medium B and SAID NOTHING about it is NOT OK! They’re not equivalent, this messes up the capacity for holding items and such. This change you not only neglected to mention, but now want to charge me for as well, completely screws up my entire base schematic. Original medium A has a central slot for a 2 tier item (think that’s what they’re called) with 2 single slot spaces on either side. Now we’re given the original Medium B which only holds the Tier 2 item and nothing else? What a ripoff!

Others have asked before, and now I ask too, why are there two medium platforms anyway? If it’s just to provide “options” they should both be unlocked by default. You now want us to pay 250 Bytes to unlock the medium platform we once got for free. That’s ridiculous. I don’t care tbh if you want to leave two types of medium platforms in the game, but you should know better than to take away something that was given by default and change it to something that’s not only of less value to the player but also start charging for something once provided at no cost. That’s a terrible design choice, I can’t believe you did this intentionally. I hope by bringing this to your attention you’ll fix this in a hotfix, soon at that. If you did do this intentionally, I hope you’ll realize you’ve made a mistake. Doesn’t matter what you do to fix it (ok, it does matter but I’m trying to make a point) just fix it. I’d prefer you switch things back, so the original medium A is the first one listed and unlocked by default. I think that would be optimal, and much less confusing for people who’ve played the game. If you don’t want to bother, then the best way to correct this is make both medium platforms free. 

I hope you’ll also realize you should've mentioned this. Any changes, no matter how small, no matter how insignificant you might think they are, should be in the Patch Notes. You can separate out the major changes (the ones you already list for updates) into the primary (top) section and call them Highlights or something like that. Then have a Bugfixes section like you already do. What’s needed is a new section for everything else, the stuff you should always cover about changes in each update but never do, we all find these changes but y’all never mention them. Maybe call this new section Miscellaneous or call it whatever you’d like. You could also categorize it into several sections, if that is easier to manage or would be less confusing. Just please cover things more thoroughly, you always miss so many things that get changed, and it’s not going to look good (or go over well) when the game is in full release.

I can’t imagine, after all the changes the game has gone through, why you’d even bother locking a medium platform? Of all the things a player can collect, Bytes gathered to unlock items, and those they should unlock early as priority items, asking them to do so for a medium starter platform, one they’ve had access to for over 9 months now, is unfathomable. To those who might say “but Bytes are soooo easy to get now” that’s not the point! Just unlock the medium platforms at the start if you don’t want to switch them back the way they were (I can understand not wanting to create bugs in the process).

It’s silly stuff like this, especially this late in the Alpha and only 3 months away from launch, which makes me (and a lot of others as well) wonder what exactly you Devs are thinking sometimes. It doesn’t seem like you spend much time thinking about how players feel or how they might react to changes you implement. You may not be outright insensitive people, but many times the changes thatve been implemented (and without any communication here whatsoever) it comes across that way. It’s “your” game, but we’re the ones who play it and go on to recommend it (or not) to others, write reviews, etc. It behooves you to communicate with your players, that’s all I’m saying, nothing more. Because there’s no communication here between Devs and players, it’s incredibly frustrating. It’s impossible to get any message across other than writing things like this, and just as impossible to know if anything you ever said, any of the feedback you’ve given (after playing countless hours of Astroneer) has any impact. I can’t imagine anyone who wouldn’t find that frustrating, and it’s difficult not to be critical. I’ve spent over a thousand hours playing this game across multiple gamertags (Xbox accounts). I own at least 3 copies (licenses) of the game maybe more, and I’ve gifted it (several times I think) as well. Obviously I love the game and want I it to be incredibly successful. If I seem critical, it’s only because I want the best for you Devs and Astroneer. I know y’all love what you’re doing and you’ve been working hard to meet the release deadline (and afaik, work on the game will continue far beyond that).

I am disappointed there’s no mention of Terrain 2.0. I realize this update represents an enormous amount of work and I’m excited to dive into it. Having said that, Terrain 2.0 was mentioned back in spring of 2017 iirc, and y’all still haven’t said anything about when we’ll get our hands on it. I do think I have an idea what happened with it, why it’s taken so long. I think it started as a rather small project, basically with the goal to update some of terrain features of the game (Adam mentioned it first, and I assume he was the main person working on it initially if for no other reason than there being only a handful of people working at SES back then plus it seemed to be his pet project lol). Over time, and as more people joined on (especially people with specialized roles and talents) let’s say it sort of became like a kid whose eyes are bigger than their stomach at dinnertime ? More and more stuff was added to the project, and eventually it became this mammoth ambitious undertaking, something that would take over a year, close to two years, to complete. A new planet was added, creating enormous new demands, hurdles, and goals for the game, taking it to the next level and beyond. In hindsight I’m sure it would’ve been better to divide the project into more manageable pieces which could've been delivered to players throughout the Alpha phase. Yeah I know, hindsight’s 20/20 and all that. I’m sure we’ll never know for sure, but I’d be surprised if some of that ring true. When you work on something you love and enjoy, time often melts away. It’s easy to become totally absorbed; you keep wanting to add more, to make it better. It’s difficul to find true satisfaction, to feel the work is ever complete. You can “lose yourself” in your work when you get in that creative “zone” it can be deceptively easy to lose sight of an endpoint, even worse I can only imagine when you’re the boss and can continue to extend deadlines almost infinitely, for awhile anyway;) 

Sad times for us players though :(  We knew a demo of Terrain 2.0 was going to be available at PAX West, so naturally it was expected Terrain 2.0 (or some part of it at least) would be in this update. That’s not what you gave us though, unless something slipped through (again) and you neglected to mention it. I don’t know anyone who plays Astroneer regularly who’ll consider this anything but a major letdown, no matter how awesome this update is. Only way to avoid this would’ve been to say ahead of time (preferably prior to PAX West, mentioning it in the VLOG would’ve been ideal) “the next update will NOT have any part of Terrain 2.0 in it.” I’m sure not everyone will agree, but I believe being open and honest about it would’ve been the best approach. If you said something about that here (on the forums) and I missed it, my sincerest apologies. If you said it elsewhere, like on Discord, that’s not enough. Never forget this is where you communicate with your players. The MAIN place. Other places, services-they’re extras. It’s great to provide additional options, but never neglect this site. Players need to be able to rely on one place, and that’s here. I know you’ve heard us say this before but the lack of communication remains a serious issue and needs to be addressed by game release December. You’ll have a flood of new players who’ll be expecting a site that runs like a fine-tuned machine, and that’s not what we have here atm. They’ll be expecting to “join this discussion” that’s been MIA for 2 years.

While it’d be nice for sure, I know I’m not gonna hold my breath waiting to see y'all in some Devs chat channel like some Devs do (we can dream though, maybe some day...) but please create a Dev section something like that where on occasion each Dev writes a bit about what they’re working on (within reason of course). They’re many options, ideas of course, things the Devs could write about there. Each one could write a bit about they kind of stuff they do in general, what it’s like doing their kind of work, about something that interests them IRL (obviously without getting into personal info or details they don’t feel comfy with sharing) about stuff with gaming in general, maybe current events in gaming, etc. It wouldn’t have to be like some major blogging assignment either. The more onerous the “job” seems the less likely Devs will want to do it, so make it something enjoyable and fun, so it’s not a pain people will want to avoid and put off until the last minute and someone has to constantly pester them to do it. Close it to comments, that’d be a mess. We’re curious creatures, we’d like to know much more about you, and not everyone gets to appear in VLOGS. I remember reading the little pieces about each person who worked at SES back when there was the original handful, and maybe the 4 or 5 who joined after them, but I haven’t read anything about anyone else who has joined on so everyone else is a complete mystery O.o Tell us more about yourselves, what y’all like to do, more specifically how’d you end up doing what you’re doing in gaming, what you enjoy playing when you’re not working on games, in your opinion what are some important topics or issues in gaming currently (optional of course, might not even be a good idea), what are some of the more difficult/fun/challenging/surprising aspects of your work, I’m sure many of us would like to hear Devs write about almost anything (ok maybe not what you had for breakfast, idk though, someone might wanna know lol).

Another suggestion, make a dedicated Dev News section, somewhat similar to current Announcements Wyv makes. He admits he often runs into various problems making announcements, stuff about what can be announced or when, etc. Surely y’all can appreciate how much better it’d be if it was sourced officially, directly from you the Devs. What sort of info would go there? The PAX West announcement with the Terrain 2.0 demo, that could’ve been listed. VLOG releeases would be a perfect fit (idk if they’ll continue after 1.0). Anytime a DevStream is planned (or any other method of communication between Devs and players) that would be the place to list it. It’d be nice if critical news (like a Twitch broadcast that’s imminent or ongoing) would initiate a flashing ticker as well, if you know what I mean, where you see the announcement in something like a red banner or whatever moving across the very top of your screen. If that’s not feasible then maybe just have a static banner go up, something that has a high vis background or maybe red exclamation marks, anything to draw attention to it. Things like this are critical to informing everyone what’s going on and future plans as well. We all need to be able to rely on getting our info from ONE place, and ONE section in that place (which is here). I’ve missed several streams because I had no way of knowing they were planned or happening despite being a member here and also being subscribed to this channel on Twitch.

As always, I appreciate all your hard work Devs, and no doubt I’ll enjoy this update. It’s a big one, there’s much to discover and lots of new things to learn, overhauled toys to play with xD Here’s hoping we’ll see Terrain 2.0 VERY soon! :D 

 

P.S. Sorry Devs, I know I got a bit redundant. It’s late, I’m tired, and I just wanna get back to playing✌️I’m sure there are quite a few typos and grammatical errors as well. I fixed them best I could, but at this point I misspell so much my iPad no longer seems to care about catching most of them?

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6 hours ago, Shadow Echo said:

1. As usual, the Patch Notes aren’t as thorough as they should be.

2. Why did you change the default medium platform?

3. It’s silly stuff like this, especially this late in the Alpha and only 3 months away from launch, which makes me (and a lot of others as well) wonder what exactly you Devs are thinking sometimes. It doesn’t seem like you spend much time thinking about how players feel or how they might react to changes you implement.  Because there’s no communication here between Devs and players, it’s incredibly frustrating.

4. I am disappointed there’s no mention of Terrain 2.0. I realize this update represents an enormous amount of work and I’m excited to dive into it. Having said that, Terrain 2.0 was mentioned back in spring of 2017 iirc, and y’all still haven’t said anything about when we’ll get our hands on it.
Sad times for us players though :(  We knew a demo of Terrain 2.0 was going to be available at PAX West, so naturally it was expected Terrain 2.0 (or some part of it at least) would be in this update.

5. While it’d be nice for sure, I know I’m not gonna hold my breath waiting to see y'all in some Devs chat channel like some Devs do (we can dream though, maybe some day...) but please create a Dev section something like that where on occasion each Dev writes a bit about what they’re working on (within reason of course).

6. Another suggestion, make a dedicated Dev News section, somewhat similar to current Announcements Wyv makes. He admits he often runs into various problems making announcements, stuff about what can be announced or when, etc.  Anytime a DevStream is planned (or any other method of communication between Devs and players) that would be the place to list it. It’d be nice if critical news (like a Twitch broadcast that’s imminent or ongoing) would initiate a flashing ticker as well, if you know what I mean, where you see the announcement in something like a red banner or whatever moving across the very top of your screen.

Jesus where do I begin..
1. Would you rather them work on the game, or go too in depth about every. single. change. Realistically you don't need to know everything, and they have better stuff to do
2. The game is in alpha, and they determined that's the way they want the progression to go. It was too easy before. That's how alpha games work
3. The devs make vlogs, do interviews, tweet back at people, and they're nearly always hanging out in the Discord. It's not that they don't communicate. You don't look for communication.
4. They've said many times when we'll get our hands on T2.0. We knew it was gonna be at PAX, and we knew it wasn't going to be in this update. Joe did 3? interviews AT PAX where he said that it won't be in this update. They've said many other times the same thing, again, especially in the Discord.
5. The devs are constantly talking on the Discord.
6. The Discord also has patch notes, twitch integration, twitter integration, YouTube integration, we make announcements anytime the devs are doing anything public. There's also a channel specifically for things they're leaking for the upcoming update.

Point is, you're that upset about the issue but don't even bother to look for the solution. Join the discord.

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6 minutes ago, MrSpicyWeiner said:

Jesus where do I begin..
1. Would you rather them work on the game, or go too in depth about every. single. change. Realistically you don't need to know everything, and they have better stuff to do
2. The game is in alpha, and they determined that's the way they want the progression to go. It was too easy before. That's how alpha games work
3. The devs make vlogs, do interviews, tweet back at people, and they're nearly always hanging out in the Discord. It's not that they don't communicate. You don't look for communication.
4. They've said many times when we'll get our hands on T2.0. We knew it was gonna be at PAX, and we knew it wasn't going to be in this update. Joe did 3? interviews AT PAX where he said that it won't be in this update. They've said many other times the same thing, again, especially in the Discord.
5. The devs are constantly talking on the Discord.
6. The Discord also has patch notes, twitch integration, twitter integration, YouTube integration, we make announcements anytime the devs are doing anything public. There's also a channel specifically for things they're leaking for the upcoming update.

Point is, you're that upset about the issue but don't even bother to look for the solution. Join the discord.

I could not disagree more

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Just now, The Touch of Grey Gamer said:

I could not disagree more

Can you elaborate on what you disagree with? His complaints were that the devs don't communicate enough, and I told him he isn't looking for it. He expects everything to just... appear in front of him.
We have a very comprehensive view of how everything is going, because the devs DO constantly talk to the players.

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2 hours ago, MrSpicyWeiner said:

Jesus where do I begin..
1. Would you rather them work on the game, or go too in depth about every. single. change. Realistically you don't need to know everything, and they have better stuff to do
2. The game is in alpha, and they determined that's the way they want the progression to go. It was too easy before. That's how alpha games work
3. The devs make vlogs, do interviews, tweet back at people, and they're nearly always hanging out in the Discord. It's not that they don't communicate. You don't look for communication.
4. They've said many times when we'll get our hands on T2.0. We knew it was gonna be at PAX, and we knew it wasn't going to be in this update. Joe did 3? interviews AT PAX where he said that it won't be in this update. They've said many other times the same thing, again, especially in the Discord.
5. The devs are constantly talking on the Discord.
6. The Discord also has patch notes, twitch integration, twitter integration, YouTube integration, we make announcements anytime the devs are doing anything public. There's also a channel specifically for things they're leaking for the upcoming update.

Point is, you're that upset about the issue but don't even bother to look for the solution. Join the discord.

Thank god you slayed that dragon of a text wall. Brevity is indeed the soul of wit.

  1. Yeah, they don't like typing short novels into their thread topics.
  2. No comment
  3. It's a shame I can't telepathically assume the knowledge of developers. That'd be real convenient. 
  4. Terrain is a core element of the game - it pretty much is the game. Releasing anything that overhauls foundation game elements can't be crapped out overnight. It's better to have a highly refined system before it hits the ground. There's likely a great deal of internal play-testing of something this important. Also, the devs mentioned it was coming, not when. 
  5. Just joined the Discord, but I assume this is true considering my experience with other developer run discords. Nothing a quick search bar check can't confirm. 
  6. Yep, the server is heavy with feeds integration. It's pretty much a nexus for info.
Edited by Wedge

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Is the Discord here? Is it?? Obviously not. Next time, don’t stick your nose where it doesn’t belong. This matter doesn’t concern you, and if you’d read what I wrote you’d have know that. So kindly move on, nothing to see here. Thank you✌️

Guess I really shouldn’t be surprised some people took to trolling my post. I stated at the very beginning it wasn’t meant for members to read and comment on anyway. For some, reading comprehension quite difficult I guess.

It doesn’t matter if you agree or disagree, it’s my feedback and I have every right to offer it to the Devs. They asked us, invited us, to join the discussion here.

Trolling on how I write, cheering people on who do so and essentially encouraging others to do the same by vilifying me and my posts? That’s open harassment plain and simple. Grow up. Get a life. Do something productive.

Anyone with a lick of sense would know why someone would disagree. Ive written written at length about how this forum is the core communications platform. Devs are fooling themselves if they think Discord, Reddit, Twitter, or any other gaming/social network are sufficient to take the place of this forum. This is where players, especially new ones, will check on a consistent basis. For Patch Notes, offering feedback, filing bug reports and more. When you load up the game and it mentions Patch Notes, it directs you here. Not Discord or Reddit, here. It tells players to join the discussion here. The Devs created this place and designated it for communication with their player community. If they’re not using it for that, they’ve broken a promise of sorts, one made to players at the outset. That’s a serious thing, one that needs to be rectified prior to full release of 1.0 Anyone who doesn’t understand this is far beyond my capacity to help. Write your own feedback to the Devs instead of disparaging, mocking the valid feedback of others like myself here.

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8 hours ago, MrSpicyWeiner said:

Can you elaborate on what you disagree with? His complaints were that the devs don't communicate enough, and I told him he isn't looking for it. He expects everything to just... appear in front of him.
We have a very comprehensive view of how everything is going, because the devs DO constantly talk to the players.

I think @Shadow Echo echoes my feelings perfectly....

10 minutes ago, Shadow Echo said:

Anyone with a lick of sense would know why someone would disagree. I've written at length about how this forum is the core communications platform. Devs are fooling themselves if they think Discord, Reddit, Twitter, or any other gaming/social network are sufficient to take the place of this forum. This is where players, especially new ones, will check on a consistent basis. For Patch Notes, offering feedback, filing bug reports and more. When you load up the game and it mentions Patch Notes, it directs you here. Not Discord or Reddit, here. It tells players to join the discussion here. The Devs created this place and designated it for communication with their player community. If they’re not using it for that, they’ve broken a promise of sorts, one made to players at the outset. That’s a serious thing, one that needs to be rectified prior to full release of 1.0 Anyone who doesn’t understand this is far beyond my capacity to help. Write your own feedback to the Devs instead of disparaging, mocking the valid feedback of others like myself here.

removed a written

Edited by The Touch of Grey Gamer

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57 minutes ago, Shadow Echo said:

Is the Discord here? Is it?? Obviously not. Next time, don’t stick your nose where it doesn’t belong. This matter doesn’t concern you, and if you’d read what I wrote you’d have know that. So kindly move on, nothing to see here. Thank you✌️

Guess I really shouldn’t be surprised some people took to trolling my post. I stated at the very beginning it wasn’t meant for members to read and comment on anyway. For some, reading comprehension quite difficult I guess.

It doesn’t matter if you agree or disagree, it’s my feedback and I have every right to offer it to the Devs. They asked us, invited us, to join the discussion here.

Trolling on how I write, cheering people on who do so and essentially encouraging others to do the same by vilifying me and my posts? That’s open harassment plain and simple. Grow up. Get a life. Do something productive.

Anyone with a lick of sense would know why someone would disagree. Ive written written at length about how this forum is the core communications platform. Devs are fooling themselves if they think Discord, Reddit, Twitter, or any other gaming/social network are sufficient to take the place of this forum. This is where players, especially new ones, will check on a consistent basis. For Patch Notes, offering feedback, filing bug reports and more. When you load up the game and it mentions Patch Notes, it directs you here. Not Discord or Reddit, here. It tells players to join the discussion here. The Devs created this place and designated it for communication with their player community. If they’re not using it for that, they’ve broken a promise of sorts, one made to players at the outset. That’s a serious thing, one that needs to be rectified prior to full release of 1.0 Anyone who doesn’t understand this is far beyond my capacity to help. Write your own feedback to the Devs instead of disparaging, mocking the valid feedback of others like myself here.

Showing disrepect to and calling the forum moderators trolls isn't really going to help your case, you know. You've been directed to the Discord, if you don't like it, too bad. Most players use the Discord or some social media as opposed to forums like these now. If I was in the moderator's place I probably would have just deleted your whiny wall o text.  They probably should change the game to direct players to the Discord instead of to these forums, but throwing a hissy fit wont get it changed.

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Spicy raised the point that complaining about 'no communication whatsoever' is very silly. This is fact. 

People will cross-comment on this, the original, and the reply, because people are passionate about this, but really it's the same argument we've seen on the forum a few times. 

One side sees this place, and only this place, as the main communication portal between us and the devs. The other side looks at where the devs actually interact with the community, and engage there. 

I've stated several times that I see having the game direct people to the forum, and then barely posting on the forum, is bad practice. I've also pointed out that I ignoring the richest source of information, discussion, and dev engagement, is crazy if you really want the details. The devs must be well aware that they've let this place go in preference to social media, so that just the way it is. 

And to point out further, the original poster mentioned expecting Terrain 2.0, whilst I posted and updated a specific thread here about t2.0 at Pax. So the forum knew a week in advance it wasn't going to be in the patch. 

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44 minutes ago, Blind Io said:

One side sees this place, and only this place, as the main communication portal between us and the devs. The other side looks at where the devs actually interact with the community, and engage there. 

 

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Why have a forum if the devs won't communicate there?  A major miss IMHO.  The Devs are the one's who are ignoring the richest source of communication, not the players.  Discord is a mess.  Not to mention, a major privacy risk and worse.  Most folks ignore it, and for a very understandable reason.

Edited by Nargg

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oof...
That discussion concerning communication is rather difficult, as it's very subjective.
The devs communicate a lot with us, but yes, this mostly happens through Discord. Those are the official SES forums, correct. Not Discord, not Reddit, not anything else. However: It should be common sense that it's practically impossible to have the same flow of information on the forums that we get on Discord. In Discord we have several channels, all having their specific topics and uses. The general channel is basically the main channel where you will find everyone, including the devs, communicate. It's all one flow. Here on the forums, we have multiple sections with a lot of different threads. Even I am not keeping up with all of them, rather I am looking at a condensed stream of information (Unread Content tab). It would be way too inefficient to communicate with people that way, with many never even opening the thread where you replied to. On Discord, it's all added to the stream of information that many are always looking at (plus we do filter informative dev replies and put them in an extra channel).

So while there's a point about them not communicating a lot on the forums, you also need to consider reality and efficiency. Even SES consists of humans, and those humans can only watch so much. We will continue to suggest you to use Discord, and you are free to refuse to, but please also accept the results coming from that decision. The internet is a big and lively place, and it won't budge to your will alone. And basically the entire community already accepted the Discord as the main hub for communication and information (the extra information including leaks, rather than major key information). The only part is missing is it actually being placed into more official position (more on that eventually).

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3 hours ago, The Touch of Grey Gamer said:

I think @Shadow Echo echoes my feelings perfectly....

removed a written

Exactly right.

Discord is a sort of clich thing and if you don't like certain mods.. then there's no point even using it. 

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22 minutes ago, Nargg said:

Why have a forum if the devs won't communicate there?  A major miss IMHO. 

...

Most folks ignore it, and for a very understandable reason.

The sentence following your quote pretty much agreed with you first point. 

The second point is just incorrect. There are thousands of Discord members on our server and it's growing all the time. It's absolutely fine to not like it, I actually prefer the more formal forum environment for dev comms, but you can't just dismiss it. 

I'm not trying to convince you either way, I'm just replying to your points. I don't think discussing it further would achieve much. 

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Actually I think most folks will seek out "official forums" as well as the steam one.  The discord isn't welcoming at all, you get mutes, banned etc for the pettiest reason, there's literally thousands of people logged into it and about 95% never speak, because it just isn't an enjoyable environment to talk in.   And having the "many" rooms just makes it even more tedious.  Having to move around rooms to say a very exact and specific thing whilst wondering if you're gonna be muted for it because some moderator can drag out the minutist misunderstanding is just not the place people want to go.

The general lack of moderation by comparison in steam and these forums makes them far more open for people to talk in.

Noone likes a police state and thats what the discord chat is.

 

Btw has anyone seen any patch notes for 10.2? Was a 200+ mb patch but no idea what fixes.

Edited by Martin

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29 minutes ago, Martin said:

1. The discord isn't welcoming at all, you get mutes, banned etc for the pettiest reason,

2. there's literally thousands of people logged into it and about 95% never speak, because it just isn't an enjoyable environment to talk in. 

3. And having the "many" rooms just makes it even more tedious.  Having to move around rooms to say a very exact and specific thing

4. whilst wondering if you're gonna be muted for it because some moderator can drag out the minutist misunderstanding is just not the place people want to go.

5. he general lack of moderation by comparison in steam and these forums makes them far more open for people to talk in.
  5.1: Noone likes a police state and thats what the discord chat is.

1. I'm sorry you feel that way, but you're gonna have to back up that claim. We ban people for breaking the rules. We try as hard as we can not to ban someone, for obvious reasons.
2. That's the way of 99% of big discord servers. Most regular discord users have 10+ servers they're on, and they're gonna care about some more than others.
3. We have a lot of channels, yes. We try to have a good reason for most and I've always been an advocate of reducing the excess channels. We have quite a few off topic channels now, but they're for specific event related things. As for the having to move between channels, We just ask you not talk about things that have nothing to do with the game in the general channel. It keeps the fluff out and allows people who actually want to talk about the game to do it.
4. Again, this is not true. We warn, generally multiple times before muting. Moderators can't mute unless you're pretty new to the server, that's to prevent spam bots.
5. Forums have a much worse 'flow' compared to Discord, on top of being more 'formal'. Not that the formal is a bad thing, but when you want dev communication in a non technical way, AND you want them to do the rest of their job on time? It's just not feasible for them to do so. They can't see everything like they can on the discord, it's a much smoother environment, more laid back, and it allows them to release information in a less technical fashion much faster.
5.1: The steam forums and these forums get quite a bit of low quality, spammy posts too, but due to the nature of web chats, discord attracts a ton more spam, and it's much easier to be active on, thus we HAVE to moderate more. Please, next time you feel we're being Nazi's, let me know, and we can re-evaluate the situation. It's entirely possible for Moderators to get blinders and not see everything. If nobody says anything, how can we know?

Saying all that, I agree that the forums should be used more by them. But you can't expect to get anywhere near what you can in an open conversation with them.

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35 minutes ago, Martin said:

The general lack of moderation by comparison in steam and these forums makes them far more open for people to talk in.

Well, I moderate all of those.
So there's not really a big difference. 

But let's stop this discussion here. I already explained what you can do if you feel like you are lacking information and communication. We're not here to convince each other what platform you should be used, but to tell you what platform is being used more actively (by the devs). 

If you wish to further discuss your perception regarding the communication between SES and the community, feel free to make a thread about it. But it's not suitable for patch note comments.

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Wyvyrias, very well put, thanks for the perspective.  I do understand.  And, in my many years of forums (pre-internet even...) you are among the best moderators I've witnessed  *wipes nose of debris*   For a central point, forums can be overwhelming for the main purpose.  But it is much more focused for an individual and provides many more avenues for feedback for each person.  Where Discord often just disappears in a quick useless yesterday kind of feeling.  Leaving many with a sense of disconnect.  I personally can't get a lot out of discord, where a forum is a wealth of information and feedback.  It's all about focus and content.  Discord = now then nothing, forum = much more.

BTW, anyone notice the storms are shorter?  :)   

 

22 hours ago, MrSpicyWeiner said:

Saying all that, I agree that the forums should be used more by them. But you can't expect to get anywhere near what you can in an open conversation with them.

 

Disagree with the open conversation aspect.  Discord feels as if it shuts you down after a short period as the conversations easily disappear with time never to be found easily.  That's not open, that's restrictive.  Discord seems to me for the short attention span types.  Great for support on a one-off basis, but seriously lacking in deep meaningful conversation which is far more useful to a lasting response on a serious project.  If the devs don't want meaningful conversation, that's a problem IMHO.  A serious problem.  One that the people putting money into this game should take note of.  Something that I've already noticed in the game too.  A bit short-sighted on a truly open world, compared to many other games similar to it.  Not trying to be a killjoy, but rather give deep thought into a small but meaningful issue.  Depth to a game is difficult to come by, yet amazingly easy to resolve with the right considerations.  And if the devs are the "discord" types, then I'm concerned that depth won't be a focus for them, and then we end up with a short-lived game with less return in the market, leading to less development in the future.  *sigh*  Seen this before, and hope I'm wrong in this case but it's not looking that great long term.

Edited by Nargg

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Replying to Joe:

I always appreciate the Patch Notes. They’re the first thing I read when each update comes out, and I know y’all put a lot of thought into them. I’m not trying to be critical of them, it’s just every time there’s been an update, at least most of them, and especially when the updates have been rather small (like many of the Alpha ones excluding of course more hefty ones like Basebuilding, Storage, Rover, etc) there are a considerable number of things missed or not mentioned. Yes, I realize no Notes can be 100% comprehensive (and probably no one besides me and maybe a few others would read them anyway lol). The only reason I mentioned Warframe is because there are some ways one can look to that game as a model.

-the Patch Notes probably are done by a dedicated team, but that’s not really what my point was about. I thought I specifically mentioned how it would be nice to see SES move towards a more comprehensive list of changes (something more like an actual changelog I believe is what some call it). I know I can’t expect that to happen overnight, but I’m happy to see y’all are interested in covering more of what y’all do each update, thanks!

- Warframe is an “indie” title too. Yes, I realize at some point the distinction between AAA title and “indie” start to get rather blurry when one achieves the kind of success Warframe has, but it wasn’t always that way. DE is now a big studio. Idk how big they were when they started, a lot larger than SES I’m sure. They also had the benefit of growing Warframe out of another game they’d made previously. Just to be clear, I wasn’t trying to make any sort of comparison between Warframe the game and Astroneer. I was only offering an example of very thorough Patch Notes from a game I’m familiar with, notes written in very accessible language, for a game that (like Astroneer) also is released both for consoles & PC (it’s also coming to the Switch as well, date TBD). Sorry if you (or anyone else) thought I was comparing Warframe to Astroneer, that wasn’t my intent. I’m happy to hear y’all will think about adding more to the Notes, that’s all I could ever ask for. I know y’all work very hard. I won’t pretend to know how your workflow goes, but perhaps as everyone works on their piece of the game it would help if everyone kept track of what they’re changing in each update so it’s easier at the end when Patch Notes are compiled to list all the changes (additions, removals, tweaks and modifications, new FXs and so on) included in that update.

To Blind Io:

I mentioned in my original lengthy post (I’m sorry, it was very long and I certainly don’t blame you for not reading it, or perhaps not reading all of it, quite ponderous to put it mildly) but I did say if there was info on the forums that said Terrain 2.0 wasn’t coming as part of this update, my sincerest apologies. So I apologize. If I’m in the wrong, I’m not afraid to admit it. I still assert, this brings things back to an issue of communication and our need for a centralized place to look for these things. I’m not going into the commmunication issue further, not about this anyway, enough has been said here in the Patch Notes for that topic. I disagree though-making another thread won’t accomplish anything. The responses here represent the most attention the issue has received in a long time, maybe ever. If that’s not indicative of communication being extremely critical and vital to many of us, and failing in many ways, idk what is.

Regarding Discord:

I don’t mind trying out the Discord, it’s not like I’m opposed to it, but it’s not a replacement for the forums and never will be (ok, I should say it’ll never be a suitable replacement, doesn’t mean the Devs won’t replace the forums, with something else but other things like Discord won’t have the same ability to reach all players in the same reliable manner). When the Discord for Astroneer started out, it wasn’t run by the Devs, wasn't associated with them at all, didn’t have any Dev presence, heck the Devs even said on these forums they didn’t really know anything about Discord. The Astroneer players themselves set up the Discord channel. Yes, channel. Idk how many channels there are now. That’s why I was never got involved with it, because it wasn’t something the Devs took an interest in. Kinda shocked me they said those things. Back then, Discord wasn’t exactly new. I’d heard it was somewhat like a gaming-based chat service “for gamers, created by gamers” that’s how I remember it. I’ve been involved in some game clans and such who’ve told me they prefer using apps like BAND and Slack for organizing things. I have NO idea tbh. One told me Discord didn’t have calendars (I’d be surprised if they didn’t have them now). Not interested in arguing about what's better either, it doesn’t matter. I’m a member of the Astroneer Sub.  Never seen Devs speak on there. Tbh never seen anything of particular interest on there except I think Adam posted some images from T2.0 from PAX West and some stuff from Zelly like a game pass was on there too. Don’t even know who or what Zelly is (guess maybe I live under a rock). Pass looked really cool. Not sure how that relates to the game though. I do hope Astroneer isn’t going to end up looking like NMS early trailers with garish bright contrast colors. I avoided for that reason (migraine trigger-I’ll pass).

I will say this (bear with me, I’m not saying this to brag). I’m guessing at this point I’ve played Astroneer roughly as long as anyone here (not that it matters, it’s not a competition; a lot of us have been around since early Pre-Alpha and we’re ALL very experienced as well as love the game). I’m admin (meaning moderator, assistant to the owner) of the most populous Xbox One club that focuses on solely on Astroneer. I’m almost 50 yrs old and a gamermom. What’s any of that matter? The things I’m hearing about communication across Discord aren’t very encouraging. Like most mature folk (I know, doesn’t seem like many exist on the Interwebz these days) I always do my best to act like a polite, decent human being, and follow the rules best I can. Why wouldn’t I? But this isn’t the first time I’ve heard cautionary tales about Discord, about people muting and banning for little to no reason. If spicy and friends are examples of Discord mods, apparently there's good reason to be concerned (you come here, acting like you’re mods on this forum when you aren’t, you troll my post when it was clear it didn’t concern you at all, criticize my writing style and encourage harassment by others, now tell me is that how mods behave on Discord, trying to instigate witch hunts and other trollish behavior? Is that how you welcome a newcomers?) I find it difficult to be encouraged by the examples set forth here, no doubt others would be as well. I have chronic pain and fatigue, no doubt a lot of people have challenges of their own far worse than I endure, but on occasion I have trouble remembering a lot of details (it’s rare, but it can happen). If i wish to interact with the Devs via the Discord (which would be the primary reason I’d be interested in going there) as I said I’m not about to jump through a bunch of hoops or abide by some litany of channel rules (or remember a million meticulous details) just because someone on a power trip felt like making a bunch of them up. I’m not trying to come across like an adversarial person, I know that’s what it sounds like, but what would anyone expect when they’ve heard what many of us have heard about the Discord already?

I’ve had over half a decade of mod experience. I’ve seen plenty of examples of good mods, bad mods, and everything in between. I’d never say I’m a great or perfect mod because I’m not. I just try my best and hope I help some folk at the end of the day. But I’ll not tolerate mods who insist on challenging me for no other reason than wanting to act like they’re gods and wanna mute or ban everyone because it puffs up their ego. I have no interest in being a mod there. Anyone who asks to be a mod is a clear sign they’re not good material for one, it’s the cardinal rule. As for me, I have enough on my plate knowing things in the club will get a lot busier when the game enters release. Looking forward to it though with all the changes that have been initiated and those yet to come, it’s going to be incredibly exciting! I enjoy helping people, that’s what I love about helping with the club, and being an admin. A lot of people don’t understand modding isn’t about power, it really has nothing to do with that. Being mod or admin is about responsibility, working hard, and helping others. Sounds corny I know but it’s true. Keeping order isn’t difficult you just need to set things are well so people can follow without a lot of confusion (if people are getting muted and banned frequently for not following the rules, sounds like a problem with the rules not the people trying to follow them). There’ll always be wise guys (and gals), trolls, troublemakers, but most people in a community are there for good reasons. If you find a need to discipline a lot of folk, 99% of the time something is wrong with your system not the people.

I’m fine with giving it a chance, I already have an account I made a long time ago, and never said I was anti-Discord. Doesn’t take the place of forums but that’s an entirely different topic. However, if the ones touting the Discord are the mods there, and I show up to ask questions and get muted right away because they want some “payback”? That’s no way for a mod to behave and any mature individual knows it.  Players shouldn’t have to put up with such behavior, and if that’s the way their treated I’d expect them to respond, talk back. A mod who would act that way doesn’t deserve respect and should be stripped of their title. The Devs should have no part of it either if that’s how things are run (again, acknowledging I don’t know, only what I’ve heard but I haven’t been there) because the mods act on behalf of the Devs whether the Devs realize or not, and become the representatives, the online faces of SES as far as players are concerned. Again, it’s speculation but if that’s what goes on? I doubt that’s the way SES wants to be thought of, to have Astroneer thought of.

It’s a risky endeavor, associating yourself with services and networks you don’t control. When you allow them to represent you in an online space, to serve as your “mouthpiece” communicating with your player base? There are other people who are interacting with players and if those interactions don’t go well it can had adverse affects on your image and your product. That’s why this forum must remain the central source for the dissemination of official information and needs to be the hub for Dev communication (and poor Joe is doing the best he can, I know that). If the Devs want to use Discord for some casual assistance? Some interaction with players on occasion? That’s great! Doubt anyone has a problem with that. Discord, Reddit, Twitter, etc, none of them will ever take the place of the forum. That’s all I want to say about that, other players here agree, and arguing won’t change that. Forums aren’t outdated. They’re still the most reliable method of communication. When Patch Notes are posted here, people know they can depend on finding them here, quickly & easily. How much can one depend on a Discord channel for fining such information at the click of a button? Using alternate methods is fine, so long as the forum is always up-to-date and receives ALL the info, first and foremost. Thanks for reading everyone✌️

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That is a really imposing text wall. It's like when you're playing Tetris Attack and someone drops an x25 combo block on your field, gotta read that whole thing and unpack it one sentence at a time ??

I can understand the updates log for new versions being a little curt and lacking discrete details sometimes too. Not everyone on a team considers their individual edits to be significant enough to mention.

We had an update way back that made all batteries in-game four times as energy dense, and nobody even mentioned it in passing, I was pretty surprised. =D Like a hidden treat.

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4 hours ago, Shadow Echo said:

Replying to Joe:

I always appreciate the Patch Notes. .... Thanks for reading everyone✌️

SEcho Omg.. Are you married? ;) I'd marry you.  I know ways of fixing fatique.

Wow, just wow.  You've said everything I'd have said if I thought to say it.  I completely and totally and undeniably agree with everything you said.  Maybe because we're around the same age or have similar experience.  I've been on senior admin for a minecraft establishment that's now over a decade old.  And another for Ark.  Both of which I rarely even play now.  Agree completely with your cardinal rule.  Something which extends into life for supervisors and even managers.  Ask for power, don't deserve it.  Asking never gets. Wait and see if you're judged as deserving by those who know.  As I unfortunately always seem to be.  I have a terrible habit of saying Yes.. when I really wished I'd said No.  Leadership isn't something I enjoy.

Spicy, I'll be honest I just ignored your post.  I've given up on even trying to argue/discuss points with you.

Wyv.. I still think you're secretly a girl.. although I've watched your streams.  I do agree with you though.  On most points.  By your hand, moderation of the steam and these forums has made them more open for active conversation.  You're a good moderator.  Mostly ;)

Snail.. So glad you've taken the time to reply to us.  Now can we get the patch notes for 10.2?

Nargg I agree completely, i honestly prefer forums as you can lay out your conversation, see what you "actually said" and improve on it to try to get your point across, in chat channels you can't really do that.  The conversation moves so rapidly that a mistake in a sentence carries some pretty hefty costs which is a problem if you're prone to making typos.

Regarding Discord, by request, we can talk about it more in another thread.  But I think the point has been made.

Regarding patch notes..

I have only an HND in Computer Software Design, frankly I was going to do the degree but just found it boring.  Sometimes I wonder what kind of miserable life I might have led if I'd stayed on as a coder.  But one thing was hammered into us, during those many lectures.  Quality over Quantity.  And fixing your mistakes.

Patch notes, must be comprehensive.   The error detection code is often bulky in coding and explaination of what lines of code do can seem useless, especially in huge programs, both are absolutely vital.  To both casual and hardcore gamers alike.   It seems to me, that many Uni Grads very quickly forget this and just get lazy.  They do a fair job, they know their job, but they get lazy, they ignore alot of what their job actually is, whether by intent or accident (don't have the literal time).  And as a result patch notes usually suffer.   It isn't acceptable.  And being a small team isn't an excuse.  Every single change must be addressed in patch notes.  Even writing out 50+ lines isn't particularly useful, if you end with "& misc other fixes" for example.. as the fix someone might be looking for is probably in those misc fixes.. and they won't know what the intended fix is.  Which is the entire point of patch notes.

/ I hate typos..& people who sing wearing headphones walking past my house..

Edited by Martin

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22 hours ago, Martin said:

Actually I think most folks will seek out "official forums" as well as the steam one.  The discord isn't welcoming at all, you get mutes, banned etc for the pettiest reason, there's literally thousands of people logged into it and about 95% never speak, because it just isn't an enjoyable environment to talk in.   And having the "many" rooms just makes it even more tedious.  Having to move around rooms to say a very exact and specific thing whilst wondering if you're gonna be muted for it because some moderator can drag out the minutist misunderstanding is just not the place people want to go.

The general lack of moderation by comparison in steam and these forums makes them far more open for people to talk in.

Noone likes a police state and thats what the discord chat is.

 

Btw has anyone seen any patch notes for 10.2? Was a 200+ mb patch but no idea what fixes.

Search function, and search modifiers. Discord is much easier to navigate than any forum. A large majority of developers maintain official Discords for that very reason. Always check the pins too.

 

21 hours ago, SES_joe said:

Whoa! A lot to unpack in this thread.

I will begin by saying, patch notes are meant to be as thorough and comprehensive as possible. Every team member goes in and adds their work during an update to keep track of what is being changed and what isn’t. 

In the case of a big update like this, unfortunately some changes fall through the cracks. That isn’t us saying we want to hide anything from anyone, it is just a miss on a rather large list of changes. Comparing us to Warframe is a bit of a stretch, we are a 17 person team compared to a AAA group with tons of support. I would venture to guess they have an entire team dedicated to comms whereas we have.... me. I totally get your feedback though, and am talking to the team about making sure changes don’t slip through the cracks in the future. 

As far as the discord vs forum thing, I read both every day, and I agree that the forums are still our main place to disseminate information. Patch notes get dropped here first, they rank on google (where most of our traffic comes from) and we link to here everywhere we post them. That being said, discord is also an awesome place for the team to directly interface with players in real time, and will become more and more integrated into our communications as we grow. 

As always, I appreciate feedback, especially critical because it helps us get better, so keep it coming. I think Wyvyrias does a great job keeping our various contact points moderated on a daily basis, I would read a lot less feedback if I didn’t have him keeping me afloat.

Yeah, they have two dedicated community managers, a social media team, project change manager, a team of round the clock admins, about 50+ mods, and in-game Q&A bots, plus community volunteers. 

Comparing you guys to DE's community engagement capability is like trying to compare a firework to a Saturn V - a very unreasonable comparison indeed.

EDIT: Also forgot, that's just for their English regional management. They have specialized persons for different languages too.

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Certain replies from the "The Crafting Update" patch note thread have been merged in here to let people continue the discussion without having to "censor" anything. Since this discussion was too much for patch note comments, I think this is the best solution. Excuse if replies that included questions about the patch notes, not related to this discussion, were merged in here as well. I can't micro manage every reply to split and edit it.

Your feedback is appreciated.

PS: I've created this thread, but due to chronological rules, the oldest reply will appear as #1. The "first" user in this thread is not it's creator.

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On 9/7/2018 at 6:58 AM, Shadow Echo said:

Ok, here’s my point I came here to make (I just started playing the update, I’m sure there’ll be more).

Why did you change the default medium platform? ... One they’ve had access to for over 9 months now, is unfathomable.
✌️?

First Off thanks Wyv for the new thread.

This I disagree with.  I think clearly the tables were placed in the game in the wrong order.  Smaller tables should be free, tables with more slots should be researchable.  It's that simple really.   Yes it was useful having easy access to them, but as the game nears final, it behooves ses to get research trees correct.

Mountains and Molehills here imo.

Majority of the rest of your op I completely agree with.

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I’m interested to hear when the Devs became involved in the Discord. As I said, they weren’t in the beginning. Quite the contrary, they seemed very uninterested in the idea (probably because they’ve always been a very small studio with a lot on their collective minds and plates).

It also bears mentioning, those who’d critique me thinking I’ve some unrealistic expections for the Devs (for whatever reason, be it writing more comprehensive Patch Notes, communicating more, whatever) I’ve always been well aware of the size of the studio. I’m not asking anything that’s unrealistic, certainly not anything other small studios don’t deliver or manage to incorporate into their sites and whatnot. Every game, every studio is a bit different of course, true that. I know changes don’t come easy either, but if you don’t ever speak up, you won’t ever see change. Remaining silent and unhappy about things is no way to be, that just fosters more unhappiness in the community at large.

I remember back when Adam and the crew were looking for a new office at the beginning, then settling in. Some people were incredibly harsh, saying how lazy they were just taking people’s money and doing a piss-poor job of the game’s development. They were only hand a handful of people! Those who are critical for the sake of it, without knowing anything about the game and the people behind it, theyre trouble no matter where they choose to raise a stink. I’m not that sort of person. I remember when Paul died (and right after that they had another core member leave, something that had been decided long before the team was blindsided by their tragic loss). I remember watching Adam do a creative stream awhile after that, the topic came up and several people in the chat spoke about it with Adam. We were all offering our condolences to him and to the team (only Adam was in the stream, can’t remember exactly what he was making though I can picture it in my mind for the most part, looked sort of like an old film projector or maybe an old reel-to-reel tape recorder in a box; don’t think we ever saw it show up in the game but I’m sure that’s true for a lot of designs), in general offering just our support to him and the team as well, but it was a very emotional moment. I’ll never forget that, a powerful memory.

 I’ve never been a part of something this awesome, not in terms of watching a game come to life. It’s sorta like watching a child grow from turbo crawling to standing, taking first steps and falling, to running faster than you can keep up lol. I know I’ve felt like I’ve made a difference, even if it’s only been a little one. I know they do read suggestions and feedback (even my mammoth posts, maybe they have a speed reader for those lol). I’ve seem some things I’ve mentioned get fixed, and quickly too (gotta be space magic). Some suggestions have come to pass as well. I’m realistic though, I know most of these things have happened not because I’ve said them, not because they were my ideas (because they weren’t my sole province). They happened because many players like myself shared their ideas and feedback as well. It’s only natural players who’ve spend a great amount of time would come to the same (or very similar) conclusions about mechanics and such.

Like many others here, I know a lot about how the game has evolved over time. Wish I knew more about the people who’ve been added on over the last year or so, that’s why I made some of the suggestions I did. Having each of them write some stuff now and then (in the forum setting) is the best way imho for people to get to know them. A lot of sites have stuff like that. There’s no reason it needs to be a big burden. Each segment they write should be fairly short, nothing too demanding, we understand they’re busy folk. As for communication as a whole, I feel for Joe. How could anyone not? The burden of communication for an entire community simply can’t fall to one person, plus he has other responsibilities as well. That’s just not fair. Gonna give the poor guy a stroke! He does an awesome job but one person can only do so much. There are only so many hours in the day etc. I hope as these major systems are finished up for release he’ll get some much deserved rest (and helpers from his peers)? You deserve it Joe!

A note about mods and dominion? I wasn’t aware the Discord mods were considered mods here. Never heard that before, and I doubt many others have either. Sorry, didn’t mean any offense to spicy or anyone else. I wasn’t looking for “moderator” tags associated with any of the names because (1) people were making comments regarding matters that didn’t concern them, (2) those making comments obviously were new to the forums (or certainly weren’t regulars), and (3) I’m tired of putting up with rude behavior and being targeted about matters of personal style (my writing style that is) because that’s been explained more than adequately (it’s not like my tomes are hard to locate in the forum lmao). It’s not something I can change, it’s intrisic same as being right or left handed for me, so yeah continually harp on it over and over is harassment. People who disagree haven’t had to endure insensitive jerks on every written communications platform. There are plenty of people who write me, and tell me, they appreciate my thoroughness. Not everyone has so much difficulty with reading comprehension. Those who are blessed with brevity, good for you. Wish I was. I’m not. Get over it and yourselves. I have plenty of other gifts and talents, more than makes up for a lack of brevity. Blows my mind when people just ignore the first sentence I write. You know, the one where I warn everyone I’m about to write a seriously lengthy article, one that doesn’t concern them, and advise them to pass on by? Does anyone really think I write that just for my health? No. It’s there for a reason. Use that noggin, read the most important sentence of all (the first one) and have a very nice day. Pick on me? Yeah there’s no way I’m going to take anything you say seriously after that, doesn’t matter who you are. A mod who takes their job seriously isn’t going to attack people over personal matters of style. 

That’s enough about that though, no sense beating a dead horse. I’d love to come to Discord and maybe bend a Dev’s ear or two. As for Blind Io, I don’t always agree with everything you say, but that’s ok, everyone has different opinions and that’s fine as long as we maintain a respectful attitude towards each other. I am sorry I put you in an awkward position, implying you were a mod. Wyv, as others have said, you do an incredible job! Who else is mod on the forums here? I know someone else was promoted from forums, maybe it was about a year ago? I know there’s someone else, and it’s not someone from Discord. Anyway, while SES may choose to grant Discord mods the tag here, I think Wyv said it best-he’s the mod here, he goes through all the forum stuff (best he can, best anyone can). The Discord isn’t here.  

As to the whole Warframe business....wow someone didn’t even read what I wrote, didn’t bother reading what I wrote in response to Joe either. Try reading that part again, what I wrote to Joe. But I’ll try again anyway. Here goes...

I wasn’t comparing Warframe to Astroneer. Got it? Good. Warframe was meant to serve ONLY as an example. Of what you ask?

(1) comprehensive, thorough patch notes

(2) patch notes written in accessible, easy to understand language that’s not overly technical, such that most, if not all, players will find comprehensible especially if they’re familiar with the game

That’s it. Nothing more. I never compared the games themselves (other than I found it relevant because both games are released to console and PC) but that’s not what matters really. The only reason I thought that important was in case anyone who played on PC wanted to make some counterpoint that PC players might expect or even demand “higher quality” aka technical mumbo jumbo in their version of notes. Clearly that’s not something expected, at least not for all games (can’t speak to anything else really, don’t play PC games because I can’t sit up in a chair for any length of time due to pain, but I happen to like console gaming just fine). The notion of “PCmasterrace” is an incredibly tired meme. I wonder how many realize it’s origins are couched in irony. I’ve seen it mentioned on here even. Sorry but it's just plain silly now, we have so many options to game, no sense in perpetuating any elitist attitudes. It’s time we move towards more inclusiveness and accessibility for all (I’m not talking about dumbing down games themselves, I’m talking about gaming communities, etc). Why perpetuate this elitism BS? Same crap as fanboyism. People on the Internet argue about the stupidest things, and never convince anyone of anything. Waste of time. Apple vs Android, Xbox vs Sony, etc ad infinitum. No one cares. As long as you’re happy with what you’re doing, that’s all that matters✌️

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