Christopher White

Do away with teathers

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I think this is ultimately an optimization thing.

Tethers are incredibly important to this game. It adds tension to exploration.

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1 hour ago, syterth said:

I think this is ultimately an optimization thing.

Tethers are incredibly important to this game. It adds tension to exploration.

I agree on both your points. Tethers are essential early on and still useable even after unlocking o2 Tanks.

 

On 9/8/2018 at 11:19 PM, Christopher White said:

I noticed in mutiplayer the more teathers you place the longer the lag deley for both players to many screen goes black and crashes the game on consols. 

You can collect up the tethers you are no longer using, putting them back in their bundles. If you no longer plan to use them, then put them in a shredder once you have built one, to recycle them for scrap.

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why not have a delete all teathers option. I mean it would work a lot better for performance if once you're done exploring an area there is some option somewhere to just delete them all. So you don't have to go collect them.

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2 hours ago, sibullski said:

why not have a delete all teathers option. I mean it would work a lot better for performance if once you're done exploring an area there is some option somewhere to just delete them all. So you don't have to go collect them.

A few problems with that idea:

First, you would be missing out on the chance to recycle them for scrap if you simply deleted them all. Second, by "all tethers", do you mean all tethers in that game, just on the current planet? You may not want to get rid of the tethers on another planet, but don't have the option to keep them whilst deleting all the others. Finally, what happens if you are out in the middle of exploring a cave system using tethers, and you accidentally press the 'delete all tethers' button? Sorry, but I seriously don't see the Devs implementing such a feature.

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On 9/9/2018 at 12:19 AM, Christopher White said:

I noticed in mutiplayer the more teathers you place the longer the lag deley for both players to many screen goes black and crashes the game on consols. 

That's a matter for optimization and bug fixes, not balancing.
Although I must question why would you want them to remove the tethers entirely, instead of just not using them?

If you're having severe issues with tethers, I suggest to carry around a platform for oxygen early on.

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better to have decay on them.   if you have not been close to it in lets say 6h ingame time then a timer starts   and they get turned into salvage

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I suggest building a Rover. Like Belts vs. Locomotives in Factorio, it’s inefficient to use teathers over long distances compared to just driving a Rover. 

Edited by Wedge

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Some sort of retraction option?  I could get pretty expensive, computation-wise with large networks, that's a definitely possible (though slightly unlikely) downside.  But the devs must assume that players will do anything, and plan for it.

But, if you had a device that did a seek along tether lines, and packed up any tether only connected to one other tether?  Then moved to the next attached tether, and packed that up too if it was now connected to only the previous tether.  Then, the device would just repack up the tethers into bundles.  You're already moving oxygen and power along the lines, what's a few little tethers more?  ?

The initial seek could get nasty, if you have a big nasty tether network.  But a single string should be pretty easy, and if you have a few branches, those will pack up first.  But it would fail completely if you have a ring somewhere.  It won't be able to find an endpoint and start there, and unless the seek is designed carefully, it could loop.  That would be the worst-case scenario, probably.

 

Alternately: retractable tethers.  Can ONLY connect twice, which prevents rings, since they can only attach to a source and destination tether, and not cross-connect.  Good for rovers, you could just mount one, and when you get back, hit a button and it packs up the tethers for easy re-deployment at the next site.

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On 9/15/2018 at 10:51 PM, TehSmoo said:

Some sort of retraction option?

That'd be awesome. Pick a tether and have the option to either put away the one you selected or all from that point on in the chain. The game would just put them all in bundles and place them on your backpack, or drop them on the floor in front of you if your backpack was full...

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29 minutes ago, vvhorus said:

That'd be awesome. Pick a tether and have the option to either put away the one you selected or all from that point on in the chain. The game would just put them all in bundles and place them on your backpack, or drop them on the floor in front of you if your backpack was full...

I like this idea a lot too. Especially once rovers are unlocked, using tethers all over the place is unnecessary. It would be great to reuse ones already made without having to pick 50+ back up again... or scrap em'.

Edited by Wedge

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7 hours ago, vvhorus said:

That'd be awesome. Pick a tether and have the option to either put away the one you selected or all from that point on in the chain. The game would just put them all in bundles and place them on your backpack, or drop them on the floor in front of you if your backpack was full...

You have to be careful with it, though.  You're basically asking the engine to simulate ALL attached tethers, and someone could have a... lot of them.  If someone does something silly like making a global tether network with a few thousand tethers...

Plus, they'll be out of sight and frozen.  Hopefully the engine could (selectively?) unfreeze as it seeks.

And this is a computer, you have to carefully and specifically define "from that point in" - loops and long chains are huge problems.  At least computers are REALLY good at recursive things, if it just did a seek down the line, and tested each tether, that might do it.  Depends a lot on how they're stored, but probably just world items that attach to any nearby valid objects whenever the nearby items changes.

Assuming you don't have a loop, you can just seek down a line until you hit a tether that isn't connected to anything else.  Pack that up.  Test the tether that aws attached to that, and if that is now connected to nothing else, pack that up.  Repeat until you get back to the start point or until you hit a tether that IS attached to 2 other points.

Repeat a few times, and you could pack up multiple branches, eventually you'll prune off all the branches and get back to the start.  Unless you have a loop, that would kind of break the entire thing.  Best to have the thing work a little slowly, don't want it hanging the game if someone tries to pack up 1000 tethers.  Could be built in pretty naturally, by requiring the player to remove the filled tether bundles manually.  So if you make 100 tether bundles and pack them up, you'd have to unload the thing 100 times.

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On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 3:21 AM, Ghostwolf93 said:

A few problems with that idea:

First, you would be missing out on the chance to recycle them for scrap if you simply deleted them all. Second, by "all tethers", do you mean all tethers in that game, just on the current planet? You may not want to get rid of the tethers on another planet, but don't have the option to keep them whilst deleting all the others. Finally, what happens if you are out in the middle of exploring a cave system using tethers, and you accidentally press the 'delete all tethers' button? Sorry, but I seriously don't see the Devs implementing such a feature.

well the way I was thinking is that it would be an option that would be located in the paus menu and that it would only delete tethers on a certain planet. This would be to improve performance.

 

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10 hours ago, TehSmoo said:

You have to be careful with it, though.  You're basically asking the engine to simulate ALL attached tethers, and someone could have a... lot of them.  If someone does something silly like making a global tether network with a few thousand tethers...

Plus, they'll be out of sight and frozen.  Hopefully the engine could (selectively?) unfreeze as it seeks.

And this is a computer, you have to carefully and specifically define "from that point in" - loops and long chains are huge problems.  At least computers are REALLY good at recursive things, if it just did a seek down the line, and tested each tether, that might do it.  Depends a lot on how they're stored, but probably just world items that attach to any nearby valid objects whenever the nearby items changes.

Assuming you don't have a loop, you can just seek down a line until you hit a tether that isn't connected to anything else.  Pack that up.  Test the tether that aws attached to that, and if that is now connected to nothing else, pack that up.  Repeat until you get back to the start point or until you hit a tether that IS attached to 2 other points.

Repeat a few times, and you could pack up multiple branches, eventually you'll prune off all the branches and get back to the start.  Unless you have a loop, that would kind of break the entire thing.  Best to have the thing work a little slowly, don't want it hanging the game if someone tries to pack up 1000 tethers.  Could be built in pretty naturally, by requiring the player to remove the filled tether bundles manually.  So if you make 100 tether bundles and pack them up, you'd have to unload the thing 100 times.

The system could have limits in place, for example, only do up to 4 tether bundles and only those on the player's line of sight. With tethers being so easy to make, probably 4 bundles is good enough.

If a player has "thousands" of tethers, well, it's on him/her, really. He/she should still get the set limit. That player should make sure to grab them from somewhere at the end of the chain. Tether management should be each player's responsibility.

1,000 tethers = 84 (rounded up) compound bundles. That's a lot of compound...

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Just a suggestion that may work for you. Remove the first tether so they will be off. I guess they would be less resource demanding, am I right? Would this reduce lag?

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Getting rid of tethers would be nuts. That's how I find my way back out of the caves is following my tether line back out when exploring on foot.

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For picking up mass amounts of thethers you should be able to pull up a little screen that is basically a black sphere with blue dots and lines (showing where thethers are and how they connect) and you can select the ones you want to recycle and they slowly decay until they are not usable anymore and when they player finds a decayed thether you can slowly wind them back up until you have a bundle of disabled thethers which you can then recycle in the shredder

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Yeah I was just reading this, and before I got to the retract idea I thought of that as well. Just go to the back of the tether line at your base, and give it a good yank (*funny animation*) and it rolls up back to you, in a pile of tether-blocks. Maybe even a tether- stacker for a aluminum and a compound. Plop it down at your base, and attach the first ina tether line. Reels em back in over a couple minutes. Or maybe just use the winch? Spear the first tether, and pull it in.

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On 10/1/2018 at 12:55 PM, Astrofun said:

Yeah I was just reading this, and before I got to the retract idea I thought of that as well. Just go to the back of the tether line at your base, and give it a good yank (*funny animation*) and it rolls up back to you, in a pile of tether-blocks. Maybe even a tether- stacker for a aluminum and a compound. Plop it down at your base, and attach the first ina tether line. Reels em back in over a couple minutes. Or maybe just use the winch? Spear the first tether, and pull it in.

+1

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On 10/1/2018 at 12:55 PM, Astrofun said:

Yeah I was just reading this, and before I got to the retract idea I thought of that as well. Just go to the back of the tether line at your base, and give it a good yank (*funny animation*) and it rolls up back to you, in a pile of tether-blocks. Maybe even a tether- stacker for a aluminum and a compound. Plop it down at your base, and attach the first ina tether line. Reels em back in over a couple minutes. Or maybe just use the winch? Spear the first tether, and pull it in.

Finally a use for the winch!?!?!?!? +1

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On 9/17/2018 at 10:18 PM, TehSmoo said:

You have to be careful with it, though.  You're basically asking the engine to simulate ALL attached tethers, and someone could have a... lot of them.  If someone does something silly like making a global tether network with a few thousand tethers...

How's about if we could craft a roomba type automated machine that could be set on a tether line and it would automatically follow the tethers either crushing them for shredding or stacking them for later use? 
Could something like that work?

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19 hours ago, The Touch of Grey Gamer said:

How's about if we could craft a roomba type automated machine that could be set on a tether line and it would automatically follow the tethers either crushing them for shredding or stacking them for later use? 
Could something like that work?

+10

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On 10/4/2018 at 2:31 PM, The Touch of Grey Gamer said:

How's about if we could craft a roomba type automated machine that could be set on a tether line and it would automatically follow the tethers either crushing them for shredding or stacking them for later use? 
Could something like that work?

You're missing the point.  The details don't matter.  Only the effect and work needed to achieve that effect matters.  Machine, or just a button, has the same drawbacks.

Computer programs (games) are VERY good at certain things, and VERY bad at others.

What happens when:

  • The machine or tether function goes out of the region around the player where the map is loaded?
  • The thing is aimed at a 1000-tether line stretching across the planet?
  • The thing hits a circle?
  • The thing hits a massive branching interconnected web of tethers?

The devs can't just design a thing that works on "easy" cases- they need to take into account that (at least some) players WILL try and push everything to the utter limit.  And if that results in a locked-up game, or a crash, or major dysfunction, that is unacceptable.

They need to design something that will work in every possible case, or at least fail gracefully.  And if it is easy to break the thing, people WILL blame the developer rather than just designing things in a non-silly fashion.

Look at most building games.  Many players keep things reasonable.  Some, though, make ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE spaceships, or make everything with the MAXIMUM blocks, weapons, etc.  All stretching off into the sunset and doing physics to each other.  And when that breaks, the developer gets criticized.

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On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 6:56 PM, syterth said:

I think this is ultimately an optimization thing.

Tethers are incredibly important to this game. It adds tension to exploration.

Yes they should stay in the game because without tethers this game would be hard and impossible.

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