bigessess

Why don't I explore more

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3 hours ago, Gray Mouser said:

Ok, contrary to your implied belief, what you can do underwater is VERY different from what you can do OUT of the water.

I did not read past this. I can't go into all the flaws in your position. After all we are talking about an......

Oxygen tank!
An oxygen tank.
It matters little if it were underwater or not. It is an oxygen tank. It is not some 25th century tech. It is after all just an oxygen tank, nothing more.

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5 hours ago, Gray Mouser said:

SCUBA tank

Maybe SCUBA tank is not the right analogy. Astronauts' backpacks in the 60's-70's were designed to last from 4-8 hours with a 30-minute emergency reserve.

5 hours ago, Gray Mouser said:

And finally, the very real fear of running out of breathable air is ALWAYS supposed to be a part of ANY space game. Otherwise, why is it in space?

To be realistic, the actual amount of time we spend in space is negligible. We spend about 99.9% of our Astroneer time on a planet's surface. Space is only reached when we want to travel somewhere else. While on the surface, every platform we build (independently if it's connected to power or not), every rover (independently if it has power or not), every shuttle (independently if it has power or not) and every habitat (independently if it has power or not) can magically "produce" oxygen and wirelessly send it to our backpacks, yet the initial tank capacity in our backpacks is so low that just a few seconds after you run away from an oxygen source you have to return and refill. I guess that, in 400 years, oxygen delivery systems out-evolved oxygen tank technology. I wonder why Exo Dynamics did not put the same oxygen delivery system into the backpacks if they intended to send people into uninhabited planets to mine for riches...

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23 minutes ago, vvhorus said:

To be realistic, the actual amount of time we spend in space is negligible. We spend about 99.9% of our Astroneer time on a planet's surface. Space is only reached when we want to travel somewhere else. While on the surface, every platform we build (independently if it's connected to power or not), every rover (independently if it has power or not), every shuttle (independently if it has power or not) and every habitat (independently if it has power or not) can magically "produce" oxygen and wirelessly send it to our backpacks, yet the initial tank capacity in our backpacks is so low that just a few seconds after you run away from an oxygen source you have to return and refill. I guess that, in 400 years, oxygen delivery systems out-evolved oxygen tank technology. I wonder why Exo Dynamics did not put the same oxygen delivery system into the backpacks if they intended to send people into uninhabited planets to mine for riches...

Thank you vvhorus! Truer words have never been posted! ?

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3 hours ago, jbarth09 said:

Can someone explain the hatred towards tethers to me? I use them quite often and have never had to much of an issue with them. 

Look on this forum for a post called:

Hovering tethers (tethers do not place correctly and fall apart, losing link to oxygen/power)

and another called:

Astroneer just closed (sometimes picking up tethers crashes astroneer)

and other posts people have made about huge networks of tethers being laggy

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On 7/5/2018 at 4:42 PM, bigessess said:

and other posts people have made about huge networks of tethers being laggy

Yep. And not even always huge networks. Sometimes visibly connected tethers will just stop being 'live', and if you can't get to a rover or your base in time, you die.

And reports of constantly increasing lag and performance loss the more tethers there are in the game. HUGE gripes since they were added to the game, and no apparent effort being made to fix it...

I hate to say it, but I'm becoming quite disillusioned with Astroneer. I just had it hard-lock my system so bad I had to hard-power down. There really needs to be a limit to adding things to a game you aren't actually FIXING the core performance issues in...

I have loved playing Astroneer for the last year, but when it gets bad enough to hard lock an MSI Titan laptop with 32Gb of RAM and dual 980M GPUs in an SLI configuration, there's a pretty serious problem. And that's not even including the posted issue with the game going resource crazy after a couple hours of gameplay... And the Fail to Launch issues, glitch crashes, falling through the planet surface, the list goes on and on... I'm really getting worn out with it all.

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What is this thread? o.o;

I came across it just by chance, and... what are all these people talking about? Free roaming without tethers? Wandering and exploring without limits? Someone said something about not wanting to take the time to build a rover, or 'leaving the base and not having to return until they had a shuttle to return in'. HUH?!

This game is very light survival. You have to actively do stupid things to die. One of the very few things they ask you to do is manage your air and energy, which is extremely simple. ...and people are complaining about this?

Let me ask a question. What are you exploring for? The comments I've read here seem to suggest that base building is both boring and unwanted by the commenter. So... what are you going to do? You're not building a base. You don't want to build a rover. You don't want to deal with air supply, so you're not looking to build a habitat. So what are you wanting to do? Just run off in one direction without stopping? Wander around the empty plains or down in the tunnels? And do what, exactly? You don't want to need resources, or a base, or an air supply or a rover to get around in. You just want to wander. What do you think you would gain from the things you're asking for?

I've seen people say 'When you place a tether then dig under it, it falls over.' with a tone of disgust. What did you expect? Other people complain of lag issues when placing too many tethers. What kind of computer or laptop are you using? Is it a Spuds brand Potatoputer? I have a VERY old laptop and I experienced none of the lag people complain about. Maybe these people are trying to run the game at absolute max settings, or placing so many tethers so close together they're causing this lag?

In my current game, I have literal MILES of tethers spread out all over the map. There are spaces in between the various lines, but the distance is such that, short of me running off into the distance, intentionally trying to die, I can reach another line easily. Maybe 50 or so tethers? 70? ...not getting any lag.

Today I had someone suggest that the storms need to be able to be set to whatever level of difficulty the player wants, and now this thread basically asking for the game to require no work at all. Is that what you all want, a 'free' mode, with no requirements at all and no penalties of any kind? All items and builds unlocked from the beginning, can build without collecting resources, infinite fuel and power, no fall damage, no storms, flight, invulnerability? I could understand if that's what you're asking for... I've done that in games myself from time to time in order to just relax and veg out. But I can tell you it gets boring after a while; and I'm the type who enjoys building for buildings sake quite often. But after reading this thread, I just felt more and more confused. It just feels like people are complaining because the game is asking them to do things other than run around doing nothing. And I honestly can't understand what someone would get from a game like that.

 

On 7/3/2018 at 3:13 PM, vvhorus said:

Maybe SCUBA tank is not the right analogy. Astronauts' backpacks in the 60's-70's were designed to last from 4-8 hours with a 30-minute emergency reserve.

To be realistic, the actual amount of time we spend in space is negligible. We spend about 99.9% of our Astroneer time on a planet's surface. Space is only reached when we want to travel somewhere else. While on the surface, every platform we build (independently if it's connected to power or not), every rover (independently if it has power or not), every shuttle (independently if it has power or not) and every habitat (independently if it has power or not) can magically "produce" oxygen and wirelessly send it to our backpacks, yet the initial tank capacity in our backpacks is so low that just a few seconds after you run away from an oxygen source you have to return and refill. I guess that, in 400 years, oxygen delivery systems out-evolved oxygen tank technology. I wonder why Exo Dynamics did not put the same oxygen delivery system into the backpacks if they intended to send people into uninhabited planets to mine for riches...

From what I've seen the various things you build don't 'wirelessly' send oxygen to your packs; you're just near enough to be tethered to them directly. Technically, unless attached to a habitat directly, the platforms *shouldn't* deliver oxygen, but seeing as how people are flipping out over not being able to run around freely with their helmets off, you can guess how THAT would go over. I think the idea, at least in the case of the EXO habitat, is there is a machine attached to the base that can extract oxygen from the existing atmosphere, then compress it so you have something to breathe. I'm assuming the same concept is involved with the rovers; and I think the platforms being able to do it is either a fluke or a 'gimme' to players who are complaining about not being able to breathe freely on an alien world.

Someone had made a comment to the effect of 'otherwise why is it in space?!' and this was your reply, even though I think you knew he was simply saying it's not located on Earth, but on an alien world.

My observed time passage in game versus real time passsing is 12 hours every 5 minutes of real time, or 2.4 hours every minute. This might vary for different worlds. But using this as a basis if an air tank lasted for 4-8 hours in game time, that would be about 3.3 minutes of real time. Again, this could be longer or shorter based on the diameter of the planets; I'm not sure. Testing the amount of time a tank of air lasts with no modifiers shows it lasted for only 1 minute, 14 seconds, or 2.7 hours. So there is definitely room for improvement.

I would greatly like to know what people think oxygen tank technology would have evolved into to allow for a tank to contain more oxygen than it's size would account for. People are quoting 4-8 hours for an astronauts tank with a 30 minute reserve for example, while perhaps not taking into account the accelerated time in game that can have a day pass in a matter of minutes. If an air tank in a game where six days can pass in an hour (12 hours per 5 minutes) of real time were to last for 4-8 hours of realtime, that would mean that in game terms, the tank would last for 24 to 48 days without needing a refill, then be refilled in a matter of minutes. I'm not sure if this is what people want, or if they'ree just asking for more time for air in the tanks.

Even so, I can't help but feel like all the hype and rage over tethers and their requirements is kind of excessive. As I said in another post, this game is survival light with some building. That people are this furious over air management, or want it completely abolished in an alien world exploration simulation is confusing.

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On 7/20/2018 at 2:16 PM, Gargoyle Girl said:

I would greatly like to know what people think oxygen tank technology would have evolved into to allow for a tank to contain more oxygen than it's size would account for.

Because this game is a work of fiction, I will use another work of fiction as an example, given how you did not like my analogy of actual NASA space suits, which this game is supposedly taking inspiration from:

In Star Ward Episode 1, Qui-Gon Jinn and young Obi-Wan Kenobi pull small devices out of their belts right before diving into a lake. It was a mouthpiece which allowed them to breathe underwater for up to 2 hours while they searched the lake's depths for the underwater Gungan city. They were not tethered in any way. They just put a small piece of technology on their mouths (in this case, miniaturized tanks of compressed oxygen) which gave them oxygen for a couple of hours. "Thanks to its advanced filters, it could work underwater, in a vacuum, or among certain noxious environments. Its miniature compressed air tanks could supply oxygen for up to two hours."

Right now the shuttles and rovers (even the small one) produce infinite amounts of oxygen. There are no visible oxygen tanks in them, yet you can either stand next to or be in one indefinitely without it running out of oxygen, even if it runs out of power. How do they do that? And most importantly, why wasn't that same technology implemented on the backpacks?

In 400 years, you would figure that oxygen tank technology would be obsolete, and extracting oxygen out of the environment not only would be a thing, it would be THE thing. The habitats, rovers and shuttles already do so. Filters can already do that at the cost of materials, but that can be a hindrance in a crisis situation if you run out of materials. There should be more efficient ways to provide oxygen to space explorers.

Some players say that they want realism in this game. Well, a minute of air is not realistic. It's just another mechanic to make you die faster. I'm not suggesting our Astroneer's oxygen tanks last for hours (or maybe I am, it would mean total freedom to explore), but at least, as of right now, a minute of air is just way too little. They surely can do better...

 

On 7/20/2018 at 3:24 PM, vvhorus said:

Star Ward

Star Wars!!!!

Come on, really?! See why limiting the time on post edits is a stupid thing? I had to create a second post just to correct my original one. Geez!

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On 7/20/2018 at 3:24 PM, vvhorus said:

Because this game is a work of fiction, I will use another work of fiction as an example, given how you did not like my analogy of actual NASA space suits, which this game is supposedly taking inspiration from:

In Star Ward Episode 1, Qui-Gon Jinn and young Obi-Wan Kenobi pull small devices out of their belts right before diving into a lake. It was a mouthpiece which allowed them to breathe underwater for up to 2 hours while they searched the lake's depths for the underwater Gungan city. They were not tethered in any way. They just put a small piece of technology on their mouths (in this case, miniaturized tanks of compressed oxygen) which gave them oxygen for a couple of hours. "Thanks to its advanced filters, it could work underwater, in a vacuum, or among certain noxious environments. Its miniature compressed air tanks could supply oxygen for up to two hours."

Right now the shuttles and rovers (even the small one) produce infinite amounts of oxygen. There are no visible oxygen tanks in them, yet you can either stand next to or be in one indefinitely without it running out of oxygen, even if it runs out of power. How do they do that? And most importantly, why wasn't that same technology implemented on the backpacks?

In 400 years, you would figure that oxygen tank technology would be obsolete, and extracting oxygen out of the environment not only would be a thing, it would be THE thing. The habitats, rovers and shuttles already do so. Filters can already do that at the cost of materials, but that can be a hindrance in a crisis situation if you run out of materials. There should be more efficient ways to provide oxygen to space explorers.

Some players say that they want realism in this game. Well, a minute of air is not realistic. It's just another mechanic to make you die faster. I'm not suggesting our Astroneer's oxygen tanks last for hours (or maybe I am, it would mean total freedom to explore), but at least, as of right now, a minute of air is just way too little. They surely can do better...

The idea of that small object in star wars holding 2 hours of air is acceptable to you? ...Cause it's not to me. I'm all for futuristic design but, to mention another fictional universe, having Ratchet and Clank compression tech for breathing would be a little too much. Same for free roaming. It is my sincere feeling that removing the air requirement from the game would make it quickly become boring, since the air limitations are part of what make th game challenging, and require you to actually build anything. If free roaming were to be made into reality once more, people would have no reason for a base. You don't get tired while running, so rovers aren't needed. You can hide from storms by digging a hole, so no shelters are needed. You don't need tethers or oxygen, so there's no risk in just running off into forever and doing literally nothing. Research? Why? You don't need to build anything, so you also don't need research points. Everything goes from 'do these things to survive and explore and that's the game' to 'Egh... just do whatever.'

Another maybe easier to grasp concept is that if hyper compressed air or built in oxygen extractors is a thing, then so would be micro rockets built into your suit. There's already a hydrazine extractor you can build that literally can pull fuel from the air. So that could be miniaturized and added to the space suit too, right? That would mean in game flight from the very beginning. They have jet packs in Star Wars, why not add them in here?

Why not advanced polymers to make falls cause no damage, and impacts from those rocks thrown by storms ineffective? Why not force fields? They have those in Star Wars too, in the roleplaying game.

Why not droids too? You could craft them (if you felt any urge to build anything) and then have them do everything while you... sat there, and... did... nothing. ...or you could run off and... keep running. Hopefully you see my point, but I'm going to try to clarify. There's two parts.

One, this isn't a Star Wars game. If they start borrowing from other franchises for ideas for this game it won't BE *this game* anymore. The entire premise for how this game is played can be completely ruined by just a few concepts from something like Star Wars. For example do you remember Guardians of the Galaxy part 2? They had a space suit in that that was nothing more than a series of energy panels, and could be activated in the void of space, keeping someone alive with NO apparent source of oxygen at all. Did you know that movie is set in 2014? Applying that logic to Astroneer would wreck it as a game.

Two, the game is a 'light survival' game. It requires you to do a very few things to manage resources so you have things to do while exploring. If they remove the air requirement from the game, that would basically destroy that concept. If you had unlimited air, you wouldn't need most of the things you end up building in the game. Tethers, platforms, shelters, rovers... all of them would basically become irrelevant, and that would break the game. A broken game should NOT be the goal of its players. Not even one broken in their favor.

As a quick additional comment. SE does seem to be trying to make some changes to explain how things work. Remember how you mentioned that rovers and shelters provide air out of nowhere? Well... no. If you look at the EXO shelters, you'll see they added a kind of machine that appears to be an oxygen extractor. This sets a couple of precedents. One, that the air on the planet has oxygen to be extracted, and two, that the technology exists to do so. Now if you look at the redesigned medium rover, you'll see that there are tanks attached to it, suggesting that they too have some version of this oxygen extractor equipped on it. So why not directly on the space suit, you might ask? Again, two reasons. One, free roaming wasn't ever the goal of this game; if a player was allowed complete freedom to wander, it would basically remove any challenge; and two, the devices are too large or too heavy for a single person to carry around, which is why they're equipped on vehicles and shelters. Yes I know the small rover doesn't show any such thing; this is a design flaw that needs to be fixed, but to be honest, where are they gonna fit the canisters visually on the small rover? Where would they add in the additional sprites on the rover bodies to show the machine working to extract oxygen? They seem to be depending on people to assume things, and it seems to be backfiring. People are hating on them and accusing them of making their game 'unnecessarily hard' or illogical.

Now in support of what you're asking for, saying 'they can do better'? ...I actually agree with you, just not to the extent of completely eliminating the need for air. I did some research and posted a new thread here: 

to try to get some notice from the devs on the matter without all the anger and hostility and people claiming they're about to give up on the game because they're not able to do whatever they please. Honestly, people are saying the game is crashing because of tethers. I can't help but wonder what else they're trying to run alongside the game, or what other factors are playing into that to make them say this, as I played this game on a discount laptop for years with no issues, and it still runs fine on my current one. I stated plainly that the air tank duration is far too short, then made a suggestion that so far seems to be getting received well.

Anyhow... the long and short of things is the game was designed a certain way, with a system of checks and balances. If those are removed or altered too much, then game balance is broken, and then people will complain about *that*. Maybe the game needs a 'free play' mode, with no resource requirements, no air or energy requirements, all research unlocked, and so on so people can enjoy their game their way.

Another thought would be to implement a 'Don't Starve' type of world set up where you can adjust sliders for everything: storm frequency, strength and duration; resource availability and node sizes; air tank size and duration; number of tunnels and their size; number of mountains and their height and area covered; planet size and type, and so on.

 

On 7/21/2018 at 12:31 AM, Gargoyle Girl said:

[previous comment]

Sorry for that monster post. ^^; I just feel people are asking for too much from the game in terms that will both ruin it as a game, and render it boring and even pointless to play. I DO see the problem with the air supply. I just don't think Star Wars type technology is the right answer for a fix, or anything else from some other franchise. Things need to be tweaked with tweezers, not smashed with a sledgehammer to fix them.

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15 hours ago, Gargoyle Girl said:

What is this thread? o.o;

I came across it just by chance, and... what are all these people talking about? Free roaming without tethers? Wandering and exploring without limits? Someone said something about not wanting to take the time to build a rover, or 'leaving the base and not having to return until they had a shuttle to return in'. HUH?!

This game is very light survival. You have to actively do stupid things to die. One of the very few things they ask you to do is manage your air and energy, which is extremely simple. ...and people are complaining about this?

Let me ask a question. What are you exploring for? The comments I've read here seem to suggest that base building is both boring and unwanted by the commenter. So... what are you going to do? You're not building a base. You don't want to build a rover. You don't want to deal with air supply, so you're not looking to build a habitat. So what are you wanting to do? Just run off in one direction without stopping? Wander around the empty plains or down in the tunnels? And do what, exactly? You don't want to need resources, or a base, or an air supply or a rover to get around in. You just want to wander. What do you think you would gain from the things you're asking for?

I've seen people say 'When you place a tether then dig under it, it falls over.' with a tone of disgust. What did you expect? Other people complain of lag issues when placing too many tethers. What kind of computer or laptop are you using? Is it a Spuds brand Potatoputer? I have a VERY old laptop and I experienced none of the lag people complain about. Maybe these people are trying to run the game at absolute max settings, or placing so many tethers so close together they're causing this lag?

In my current game, I have literal MILES of tethers spread out all over the map. There are spaces in between the various lines, but the distance is such that, short of me running off into the distance, intentionally trying to die, I can reach another line easily. Maybe 50 or so tethers? 70? ...not getting any lag.

Today I had someone suggest that the storms need to be able to be set to whatever level of difficulty the player wants, and now this thread basically asking for the game to require no work at all. Is that what you all want, a 'free' mode, with no requirements at all and no penalties of any kind? All items and builds unlocked from the beginning, can build without collecting resources, infinite fuel and power, no fall damage, no storms, flight, invulnerability? I could understand if that's what you're asking for... I've done that in games myself from time to time in order to just relax and veg out. But I can tell you it gets boring after a while; and I'm the type who enjoys building for buildings sake quite often. But after reading this thread, I just felt more and more confused. It just feels like people are complaining because the game is asking them to do things other than run around doing nothing. And I honestly can't understand what someone would get from a game like that.

Well, OP is playing in a self-imposed "hardcore" mode where they delete on death.

So, naturally, they come into the forum because the game is too hard and they might die.

Because, somehow, this makes sense.

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6 hours ago, TehSmoo said:

Well, OP is playing in a self-imposed "hardcore" mode where they delete on death.

So, naturally, they come into the forum because the game is too hard and they might die.

Because, somehow, this makes sense.

lol. Well, as I said, this game is pretty easy. You have to *try* to die in it. It's almost difficult. But they did bring up a point I did some research into.

The air supply in the suits is much less than it should be, if you consider modern space suits capacity. I actually worked it all out and you get about a third of the least amount of air a modern space suit will have in it, which is about 6 hours worth. It the game, you get about 2 hours worth of air in game time. Even made a thread about it, hopind the devs will notice it. So their problems with air supply isn't *completely* unfounded.

Still, in this thread are a lot of people hating on the game for no real reason other than it requires some effort. For example one person mentions wanting to run off and not have to worry about tethers. I've done this at least once. All you need to do is collect those small groupings of oxygen on the ground; I went for over 20 minutes literally without building a thing or searching for oxygen, running in a straight line, and only died when I tripped into a hole and couldn't get out. So even without tethers it's possible to run around for a long time with nothing at all but what you start with... and that's STILL too much work for some people commenting here.

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On 7/20/2018 at 1:28 PM, Gargoyle Girl said:

But I can tell you it gets boring after a while; 

How is it that your way to play is the only way? I feel as if you feel as if you are some authority on the world of 'boredom'. This is just the second post I've read of yours and both infacticly state that somehow you are the authority when it comes boredom and how to play this game. 
Trust, you are not the authority on how others will or can enjoy this game. You are not the authority on how long it will take someone to become bored. You are not the final word on how someone can, should or must enjoy this game. 
Many things you state in your posts as fact simply are not. They may be facts for you, but I assure you they are not factual for all. 

 

On 7/21/2018 at 12:31 AM, Gargoyle Girl said:

 It is my sincere feeling that removing the air requirement from the game would make it quickly become boring, since the air limitations are part of what make th game challenging, and require you to actually build anything.

Just curious, what is the challenge exactly? Are you talking about the challenge of finding compound? Are you talking about the challenge in making tethers? Placing them? Can you please tell me what is this challenge you are talking about. I know of none. Not a single challenge when it comes to tethers, not one. 
I can't roam 15 meters without tripping over compound. I know how to open my backpack and turn compound into tethers. I even know how to place said tethers. So again I have to ask, what the hell is this challenge you keep talking about? 

At what hour will the challenge you speak of end? When does it cease being a challenge? I'm closing in on 700 hours played. Do you think I should still be finding tethers challenging? I'm fairly certain that tethers ended being a challenge for me a really long time ago. Maybe 690 hours ago? 

 

On 7/21/2018 at 11:31 AM, Gargoyle Girl said:

 I actually worked it all out and you get about a third of the least amount of air a modern space suit will have in it,
So their problems with air supply isn't *completely* unfounded.

I always take to into account that the game takes place in the 25th century so you know about 400 years or so into the future. 

If you took into account that there are as many ways to play this game as there are people playing it, 'problems' is not the proper word

 

On 7/20/2018 at 3:42 PM, vvhorus said:

Star Wars!!!!

Or how about the 1969 Apollo 11 Space Mission? 
Question: Did Neil Armstrong use tethers when walking on the moon in 1969?
Question: Was the spacecraft that landed on the moon making oxygen? 
Question: How did America get oxygen to the astronauts on the moon in 1969? How many shuttles were used? How many oxygen tanks did they carry?

So the astronauts of 1969 walked on the moon without tethers, hmm interesting.
The Apollo Portable Support Life System (PLSS) was used in 1969 yet over the course of the following 400+ years...zero improvements? In America?
The 1969 Apollo spacecraft recycled carbon dioxide (the backpacks also recycled carbon dioxide) yet in 400 years not a single improvement? What???

So space exploration is going in reverse in Astroneer?
Why is it in 1969 Astronauts had more freedom than my 25th century Astroneer? Tether: to tie (an animal) with a rope or chain so as to restrict its movement.
NASA and other space agencies over the course of more than 400 years neglected to make improvements on a system that was proven to work (PLSS & Lithium Hydroxide) but rather implemented tethers? 

In 1969 astronauts did not have tethers, did not have oxygen tanks as they created their own oxygen from recycling carbon dioxide and everyone lived and was fine. So I'm to believe that in the following 400+ years not a single improvement, innovation, breakthrough or hell even work, 5 minutes of work was not completed? Seriously? The only innovation in 400+ years was tethers?
Tethers are not even close to being American for crying out loud! When has America or American's ever been tethered? It is simply not in our nature. We frown on people and publicly shamed them when they used to tether their children and you want me to believe that in more than 400+ years not a single innovation was to be made by American's? How high is the pro-tether community? How unAmerican is this whole entire scenario? Americans being tethered is utterly ridiculous. 
 

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Filters cost 300 bytes to research, in the current build you don't even need a research chamber to download the schematic for printing.

You can nab six compound and be perfectly fine underground for more than an hour with Filters, not even accounting for the oxygen bubbles on the walls and sporadic filters on dead bodies. =P

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On 7/20/2018 at 6:31 PM, Gargoyle Girl said:

The idea of that small object in star wars holding 2 hours of air is acceptable to you? ...Cause it's not to me.

Isn't current technology moving towards miniaturization? Look at your smartphone. You hold in your hand a more powerful computer than a full-fledged server from 20-25 years ago, and it also makes phone calls, and takes great photos, etc.

On 7/20/2018 at 6:31 PM, Gargoyle Girl said:

Another maybe easier to grasp concept is that if hyper compressed air or built in oxygen extractors is a thing, then so would be micro rockets built into your suit. There's already a hydrazine extractor you can build that literally can pull fuel from the air. So that could be miniaturized and added to the space suit too, right? That would mean in game flight from the very beginning. They have jet packs in Star Wars, why not add them in here?

Fine by me. Actually, that would be a lot of fun. There are a few threads already in the suggestions sub-forum requesting those...

On 7/20/2018 at 6:31 PM, Gargoyle Girl said:

Why not advanced polymers to make falls cause no damage, and impacts from those rocks thrown by storms ineffective? Why not force fields? They have those in Star Wars too, in the roleplaying game.

That is actually a great idea! And I'm not being sarcastic. I actually like that.

Regarding force fields, it has been requested also...

On 7/20/2018 at 6:31 PM, Gargoyle Girl said:

Why not droids too? You could craft them (if you felt any urge to build anything) and then have them do everything while you... sat there, and... did... nothing. ...or you could run off and... keep running.

Or, you can send your robot to do one thing while you do another. It also has been requested before. Automation is in the roadmap...

On 7/20/2018 at 6:31 PM, Gargoyle Girl said:

One, this isn't a Star Wars game. If they start borrowing from other franchises for ideas for this game it won't BE *this game* anymore. The entire premise for how this game is played can be completely ruined by just a few concepts from something like Star Wars. For example do you remember Guardians of the Galaxy part 2? They had a space suit in that that was nothing more than a series of energy panels, and could be activated in the void of space, keeping someone alive with NO apparent source of oxygen at all. Did you know that movie is set in 2014? Applying that logic to Astroneer would wreck it as a game.

And nobody is asking for it to be one. We just want more air in our tanks. Plain and simple. You're just going off on a tangent.

On 7/20/2018 at 6:31 PM, Gargoyle Girl said:

do you remember Guardians of the Galaxy part 2? They had a space suit in that that was nothing more than a series of energy panels, and could be activated in the void of space, keeping someone alive with NO apparent source of oxygen at all. Did you know that movie is set in 2014?

2014 not on Earth. And yes, Starlord has a mask that appears out of nowhere and allows him to travel in space without the need of a space suit and no oxygen tank. All alien tech.

On 7/20/2018 at 6:31 PM, Gargoyle Girl said:

I did some research and posted a new thread here

...and it was brilliantly done. I was  the first one to give you a +1 on it...

On 7/20/2018 at 6:31 PM, Gargoyle Girl said:

without all the anger and hostility and people claiming they're about to give up on the game because they're not able to do whatever they please

I didn't said that. I said I was done until such time the devs introduce more substance into the game. Right now the game feels boring to me: gathering research, base building, gathering resources, more research gathering, build a shuttle, leave, rinse and repeat on another celestial body, finish research tree, start new save game, repeat. There's no why. There's no substance. Shredders are only a novelty until such time their true value is revealed. But right now, they don't really add much to the game for me.

On 7/20/2018 at 6:34 PM, Gargoyle Girl said:

I just don't think Star Wars type technology is the right answer for a fix, or anything else from some other franchise. Things need to be tweaked with tweezers, not smashed with a sledgehammer to fix them.

It was just an analogy to compare the mouthpiece technology to our Astroneer's backpack only, not the general direction that the game needs to take. I think you just read too much into it..

On 7/22/2018 at 6:39 AM, The Touch of Grey Gamer said:

Or how about the 1969 Apollo 11 Space Mission? 
Question: Did Neil Armstrong use tethers when walking on the moon in 1969?
Question: Was the spacecraft that landed on the moon making oxygen? 
Question: How did America get oxygen to the astronauts on the moon in 1969? How many shuttles were used? How many oxygen tanks did they carry?

So the astronauts of 1969 walked on the moon without tethers, hmm interesting.
The Apollo Portable Support Life System (PLSS) was used in 1969 yet over the course of the following 400+ years...zero improvements? In America?
The 1969 Apollo spacecraft recycled carbon dioxide (the backpacks also recycled carbon dioxide) yet in 400 years not a single improvement? What???

So space exploration is going in reverse in Astroneer?
Why is it in 1969 Astronauts had more freedom than my 25th century Astroneer? Tether: to tie (an animal) with a rope or chain so as to restrict its movement.
NASA and other space agencies over the course of more than 400 years neglected to make improvements on a system that was proven to work (PLSS & Lithium Hydroxide) but rather implemented tethers? 

In 1969 astronauts did not have tethers, did not have oxygen tanks as they created their own oxygen from recycling carbon dioxide and everyone lived and was fine. So I'm to believe that in the following 400+ years not a single improvement, innovation, breakthrough or hell even work, 5 minutes of work was not completed? Seriously? The only innovation in 400+ years was tethers?

Totally agree...

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On 7/22/2018 at 12:39 PM, The Touch of Grey Gamer said:

Or how about the 1969 Apollo 11 Space Mission? 
Question: Did Neil Armstrong use tethers when walking on the moon in 1969?


Tethers are not even close to being American for crying out loud! When has America or American's ever been tethered? It is simply not in our nature. We frown on people and publicly shamed them when they used to tether their children and you want me to believe that in more than 400+ years not a single innovation was to be made by American's? How high is the pro-tether community? How unAmerican is this whole entire scenario? Americans being tethered is utterly ridiculous. 
 

Don't get me wrong here. I agree there needs to be improvements in the amount of air the Astroneer gets. The problem is the expectations some people have for how much they're given. You speak of Neil Armstrong and his moon landing. Astronauts today, 50 years later the tech has improved somewhat from the 5 hours of air that the suits in 1969 could hold and reprocess to 6-8 1/2 hours of air we have today. But that's not a lot of improvement. I think the tech levels depend on the amount of usage they're getting. Not a lot of money or effort is going to be put into advancing space suit tech if it's not being used constantly. With that being said, this IS a game about space explorers 400 years in the future, so you'd expect something.

Again to me the problem I have is the overall game mechanics. which call for air providing tethers to limit the ability to wander around too freely. Simply put: if you remove that restriction, the game would break completely. Need a resource? Just wander til you find it. Need to get someplace? ...walking is fine. The air limitation mechanic is integral to the game. Do they need to increase the time a person can go without recharging? Definitely. But there are people calling for the mechanic to be dismissed entirely. That would be going too far.

Another aspect of the tether concept is building, which this game is also focused around. Constructing a comprehensive tether network takes time and planning. It's not just running and using that stupid 'auto-placement' function that only kinda works. You have to consider the distance between them, direction, where you're trying to reach. In my best game so far, I had the area around my base networked with tethers. I could run around within that network freely, not even having to think about air because no matter which way I ran, I knew there was a line up ahead. Constructing this is part of the game too.

Lastly... you start talking about 'tethers not being American'. <puts head in hands> I guess you haven't been watching the news lately. Or heard of slavery. Or noticed the not only American, but human habit of tying themselves to things, from their homes to their jobs to their racial or religious beliefs and yes... even to their nationality beliefs. In this case 'tether' is not meant to mean 'a binding or restriction'. It's meant to mean 'a length of cord' or more likely 'a lifeline'. This has nothing to do with being American or any other nationality though, so let's not go there, ok?

P.S. Yes, I am an American. A lot of other players aren't though, so applying that to this game is quite silly.

 

On 7/23/2018 at 3:16 PM, vvhorus said:

Isn't current technology moving towards miniaturization? Look at your smartphone. You hold in your hand a more powerful computer than a full-fledged server from 20-25 years ago, and it also makes phone calls, and takes great photos, etc.

Fine by me. Actually, that would be a lot of fun. There are a few threads already in the suggestions sub-forum requesting those...

That is actually a great idea! And I'm not being sarcastic. I actually like that.

Regarding force fields, it has been requested also...

Or, you can send your robot to do one thing while you do another. It also has been requested before. Automation is in the roadmap...

And nobody is asking for it to be one. We just want more air in our tanks. Plain and simple. You're just going off on a tangent.

Now, in these comments, you say you don't want the game to be more like a Star Wars game. You then go on to agree that all the ideas I got from my time playing the Star Wars roleplaying game should be added to the game, then accuse me of going off on a tangent when I suggest people are trying to hard to make this game like other franchises. xD If all this stuff were added to the game, it would become so pointlessly easy and boring that the break you're currently taking would literally extend into forever. Imagine being an armored, flying, force field shielded unit with robotic support and an ultra long term air tank that could refresh it's own supply. That sounds just like this game right?

I already aknowledged the air tank supply needs to be bigger. I will go further and say being able to shield your base from storms with a force field would add some flair without really changing anything unless they implement storms being able to damage bases. Even then it would just help to save on repairs, not severely ruin the games design. I already asked for the ability to take more than one hit in a storm... or two I guess since I took one recently and it just hurt. That could be the body armor; an extra hit or so just in case you get caught out far from safety. The flying concept could work in game if said flight had risks involved, like failing to account for range and height resulting in a nasty fall or, once again, flying to far and running out of oxygen. Automation has some merits, but for what, exactly? Since resources are limited, gathering would be pointless. I would imagine any robot in this game would have limited range, depend on fuel or need repairs to keep going so you'd have to check on them and not just have the clear the planet of resources for you. Possibly, they would need a guide beacon to show them where to go along with some simple directive like 'harvest resources', 'repair the base', 'gather scrap' and so on.

I was pretty much being sarcastic in my replies in the previous post, assuming you would catch on, because you seem pretty intelligent. Guess not though (you didn't catch on, not you're not intelligent; I still think so). In all those examples I gave in the previous comment wer meant to be obviously OP. Armor where you take no fall or storm damage? There's like... three things that can hurt you in this game and you *really* want to remove even that? xD

In the end, I'm not against improvements and additional things added to the game to make it fun. I just want them to be moderate and balanced, and not the kind of thing that basically makes doing all the things you're meant to do to keep you busy in the game pointless. Doing otherwise would be the same as SE suddenly making this a battle royale game.

 

On 7/21/2018 at 11:54 PM, The Touch of Grey Gamer said:

How is it that your way to play is the only way? I feel as if you feel as if you are some authority on the world of 'boredom'. This is just the second post I've read of yours and both infacticly state that somehow you are the authority when it comes boredom and how to play this game. 
Trust, you are not the authority on how others will or can enjoy this game. You are not the authority on how long it will take someone to become bored. You are not the final word on how someone can, should or must enjoy this game. 
Many things you state in your posts as fact simply are not. They may be facts for you, but I assure you they are not factual for all. 

First. 'Infacticly' isn't a word. Second, back off just a tad. Your next few posts are sounding less like a conversation, and more like you're trying to put me down or call me stupid or just plain wrong because I don't agree with you and am debating the concepts you're putting forth.

Second, I'm not trying to *tell* anyone anything. I'm presenting another viewpoint on the subject at hand. My own. Of course it''s going to sound like I'm telling you what things are from my perspective. I am.

Lastly, you're trying to tell me I'm wrong, but then what? Are you right then by default? What makes *you* feel you're an authority on any of this, and everyone else is wrong? Not once have I said, 'No one who says or thinks differently from me is completely wrong.', but here you are, telling me I know nothing. This is supposed to be a discussion and a debate of sorts. No hostility, no cursing, no anger. So why do you seem so upset?

If you are unable to continue having a civil and normal conversation with me here, please stop. I'm not trying to fight you, just talk with you. Please make the attempt to understand this.

 

On 7/22/2018 at 12:06 AM, The Touch of Grey Gamer said:

So again I have to ask, what the hell is this challenge you keep talking about?

Again, I'm gonna ask you very nicely to stop beeing hostile, and to keep your foul language to yourself. Stop being so angry about this game, and let's try to be a bit more constructive, hmm? If not, please feel free to block my comments or whatever you need to do in order to not b bothered by them.

That said... what is the subject of this thread? Not the topic at the beginning; the conversation most people are having? It's about the need to place tethers. And are you not squarely in the camp saying tethers shouldn't even exist? That theey cause problems for the gamers from lag to frustration with having to place them? So I'm returning your question to you. What IS the challenge with using tethers? YOU seem to be having the problem here, not me.

If you're referring to the challenge within the game of using tethers, then I can answer that one for you though. It's the challenge of not suffocating by placing them. It's thee challengee of not just throwing them out willy nilly, but planning out and placing an intelligent network of them that lets you run around more or less without restriction, but also without having filled the map with tethers to the point of them lagging you. It's the challenge of placing them at the limit of their range to connect to others (it's slightly further than when you can auto place one, but that distance adds up) and the challenge of being sure you actually placed it, so it's on the ground and rooted properly so the next storm doesn't blow one away and break your line.

It's not a big challenge. But it IS a challenge, made all the more difficult for people like yourself who don't even want to use the things.

When I'm building a base, it's not just the platforms, machines and vehicles. It's the tether network as well, just in case you can't depend on those other things for air. A well built tether network is like a finely placed spiderweb you can run around inside the limits of without fear of having issues with air. If you get distracted, a line is nearby no matter where you run. I'vee set up several networks just like this, tweaking it with extensions to reach deposits of resources or to get down into the tunnels as needed. It covered far enough in all directions that I could run for a solid 20 minutes of real time without being far from one, yet without having them clutter everything.

But again... it's no hugee challenge, no great difficulty to *make* tethers and just toss them wherever. Even when you're on a compound poor planet, and don't have 'compound every 15 meters' as you describe it, it's not too hard to make them and use them.

The question comes back to me yet again though: If it's so easy it's nothing at all for you, why do you care about removing them from the game so much?

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5 hours ago, Gargoyle Girl said:

The question comes back to me yet again though: If it's so easy it's nothing at all for you, why do you care about removing them from the game so much?

Wow, I've only written about this a dozen times or more. If you still have no idea what my position is then repeating it I'm afraid is not going to help you much. I'm not getting through to you. You still have yet to explain what is this challenge you speak of. Rather than answer, you ask me yet another question. You answer a question with a question which just shows how weak your position really is.

You feel that the hand holding SES does by forcing us to use tethers is somehow someway produces a challenge to... not suffocate. I can't remember the last time I suffocated when I played. How can I....as I have to be tethered to play. You can't seem to make that connection. Suffocating is not a challenge because we are always tethered to oxygen, always. If the only way there is to suffocate is for the player to intentionally move 10 meters from a tether, that is not a challenge. It is just one meter too far, nothing more.

As to answer the question I highlighted........ So that playing becomes a challenge. I would love to play and have an opportunity to suffocate, die, be in peril etc. however with tethers the only way that happens, is if I, oh I don't know, I play with my monitor off? Eyes closed? Develop amnesia? I would say run out of compound but that will never happen. 

So in December when SES puts the Astroneer eating plants into the game that will be a great step in the proper direction. An outside force, something that my Astroneer does not have control over can become a challenge. Right now the only challenge is me not placing a tether. The life and death challenges should not only be produced by me, but the game, environment itself. 

As for you first paragraph have you checked out the emojis? How upset would you be if I posted the middle finger or the pile of doo doo (I would say shit but the word hell upset you so I would imagine that the word shit would have been too much for you?) if you are going to be on internet forums you are going to have to get beyond the word 'hell' if you are going to survive.  

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9 hours ago, Gargoyle Girl said:

I was pretty much being sarcastic in my replies in the previous post (etc.)

Fair enough...

I suggested an idea in another thread, don't know if you had a chance to read it:

Quote

Here's an idea: remove the oxygen requirement (our suits would automatically filter oxygen out of the environment) but make suits susceptible to leaks. If you get a leak (be it from getting tangled in something or from hostile vegetation), the toxic air from the atmosphere starts sipping into your suit, mixing with the air inside and slowly choking you. You can either craft a repair kit (maybe using the now-useless filters asset) which would yield 4 repairs, or going to your nearest vehicle and tethering in. This would be more believable than a 60 second air tank inside a full space suit...

I think this would be a better solution to our current situation, and a good compromise for those who want tether-free exploration. We get to explore freely, but with limitations. You will either need to handily have a repair kit on your backpack or the materials to build one. A leak may take from one to four repairs, depending on the severity, and SES could make it so brushing against rock formations, sharp terrain or trees may trigger a leak via RNG.

8 hours ago, Gargoyle Girl said:

But again... it's no hugee challenge, no great difficulty to *make* tethers and just toss them wherever.

The entire game is not challenging at all. Tedious, yes; challenging, absolutely not. If I want to play something relaxing and challenge-free, Astroneer is perfect as it is.

9 hours ago, Gargoyle Girl said:

The question comes back to me yet again though: If it's so easy it's nothing at all for you, why do you care about removing them from the game so much?

I personally don't want tethers removed from the game, they don't need to be. I just want more air on the tank. Tethers are so easy to get that sometimes I used to go for hours without even crafting any. A dead Astroneer can yield up to three bundles, and those can last a long time. A little more air on the tank will go a long way, especially in the early game...

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3 hours ago, vvhorus said:

I personally don't want tethers removed from the game, they don't need to be. I just want more air on the tank. Tethers are so easy to get that sometimes I used to go for hours without even crafting any. A dead Astroneer can yield up to three bundles, and those can last a long time. A little more air on the tank will go a long way, especially in the early game...

I agree with this statement. Tethers don't need to be removed - but can be if there is another suitable source of letting the Astroneer walk around for a reasonably long amount of time, such as an extended oxygen tank in the early game. However, I believe that making tethers and using them wisely is more of a challenge than being hand-held by a slowly-depleting oxygen tank. There is no need to simplify an already somewhat reliable oxygen system.

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I haven't merged that many posts in a while, if ever. heh

Little reminder for everyone to stay calm and civil. This discussion has escalated quite a lot. And while I am not eager to read through a whole book to figure out where exactly this started, I am also not eager to lock down threads where people have actual discussions. So let's reduce the amount of attacks on each others personal opinions and/or playstyles and let it calm down. Realism, playstyles, challenges...it's all relative in a game, different for everyone. So if you think someone is "wrong" about something subjective, tell them in a simple and friendly manner, without attacking their opinion. Don't go beyond that, just move on. It's not gonna help. It's just their idea to enjoy the game.

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