bigessess

New versions vs old save files, please update

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36 minutes ago, bigessess said:

I did not avoid it, I labeled it irrelevant and dismissed it as such. Did you ask it twice? idk, I can not promise that I pay attention as I read when people get off topic. 

You quoted and edited it a couple of times so yeah. I tried to make clear that I wasn't attacking or disrespecting you, I was genuinely interested. I'm not now. 

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30 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

if it was an easy fix to keep saves from deprecating during active development

Well that is not what it was. It was "I would like new versions to be less destructive to old save files", as I said in my last reply to you, drop the nonsense, read the opening post, and if you need to reply to me, reply to what I said in that. That is the point I made.

 

32 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

it's not an easy fix

I ask then, how do you know? are you a dev on this project? do you hold some secret that we do not? Back up your guess with something besides opinion.

 

33 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

it's quite valid for people to want to pull rank and find out what sort of background you have

Why? I ask you all of the same questions from 2 posts ago, you fill in those blanks. If I reveal that I am a developer of other project(s) does that somehow suddenly validate my request? If not, does it mean this whole post is junk? (well besides the fact that it already is lol)

 

35 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

you feel like you're some sort of expert in this,

I can quote me saying I do not know any of the devs and nothing of the implementation of this project, can you quote me saying I am an expert in anything, anywhere, in any form or reference?

 

36 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

because the rest of us apparently understand these things better than you do

What exactly is it you understand and what do I not understand? Besides the questions I have asked that have gone unanswered, obviously those things I do not yet understand... what are you referring to?

 

37 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

we certainly didn't need to have the concept of alpha-phase sledgehammered into our skulls

...which is exactly what you have been trying to do in several posts I could waste the time to quote,  dare you to quote me once trying to explain alpha-phase to anyone anywhere on this forum. You have seriously got to bring a better game to this table. ?

@Blind Io

Don't backpeddle now, the questions stand.
I will 1 up you on it for the fun of it. Give an answer to the questions I listed, and I will answer yours

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3 minutes ago, bigessess said:

I ask then, how do you know? are you a dev on this project? do you hold some secret that we do not? Back up your guess with something besides opinion.

i know because i've participated in several dozen betas over the past 2 decades, deprecated saves are a fact of life pre-release. 

 

4 minutes ago, bigessess said:

Well that is not what it was. It was "I would like new versions to be less destructive to old save files"

that is exactly what "deprecated saves" means; old saves not being compatible (deprecated) in new versions. again, they're a fact of life during pre-release when the code's changing too much and the devs can't be bothered to waste their time maintaining compatibility. that sort of mindset is why survival games on steam are notorious for being early access development hell for years. 

all we're doing is using different words to say the same exact thing: keep old saves playable. it's simply not a plausible move at this point unless they want to become the 3237th game on steam to be stuck in early access for eternity.

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3 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

i know because i've participated in several dozen betas over the past 2 decades

So this game can not be different than anything you have done in the past. You have done it all, seen it all, and nothing else can be possible. I disagree completely, 100%. (there now I said it, something I can be sure of 100%)

I never said the term "depreciated saves" nor did I attempt to give it any definition, neither the same as or different than your definition. Your sort of mindset (assuming all games crap on old saves, which is also incorrect) is what allows games to stay in pre release for years. If people speak up, say what they want, then the devs have a clue which direction to head with the bugs in hand.

7 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

all we're doing is using different words to say the same exact thing: keep old saves playable.

You have only said the opposite of that, several times I could quote again but will not waste the time. Don't flip flop now. At this point, yes we can start working on the stability of save files, release is a quarter away, as most have said, don't expect stable saves until release, how will there be stable saves at release if there is no work on it prerelease? I do not follow your logic, are you sure you beta tested before? bump on the head perhaps?

Challenge stands. Answer the questions... or at least this one. How is my prior experience, or lack thereof, in any way related to me being allowed to make a post on a topic about the game in the forum for the game?

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as i've said probly a dozen times by now, there most likely already IS work done on retaining saves across updates. it simply makes no sense from a development standpoint to have people reporting OLD bugs from OLD saves that most likely don't exist in the new updates. your initial 'bug report' showing your wonky base is proof of that. it's not a bug, it's a clash of code that almost definitely doesn't happen unless you're using an old save on a new version. hence the reason MOST games that want to go ahead and get to a release point force some sort of progress reset often, and the reason pretty much every patch note (the patch notes are public domain, btw, you can see them yourself) highly recommends starting fresh. if you think it's annoying to start a new save in astroneer (it isn't), imagine putting in hours and hours on something with 'real' progress like WoW or terraria, then a massive update comes out that puts you back to level 1. 

it's a simple fact of playing a game that's under active+intensive development: progress is ultimately temporary. 

also, nobody needs to tell the devs that saves corrupt across versions. they constantly TELL you saves won't carry across updates. how could they tell us that if they didn't already know?

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1 hour ago, bigessess said:

Yes, it is. See the attached photo and the short description in the first post. This was the point of the post to begin with. It IS in fact broken.

I saw the photo and the short description. You stated "I would like the new versions to be less destructive to old save files". That is basically, that after an update, you can load an old save trying to maintain consistency (less destructive if you wish). As a matter of fact, that files is not broken. What is broken is the load process. Go, read what I wrote about it again. I start to feel that you are not reading what I say.

2 hours ago, bigessess said:

ya ya ya, everyone gets the moral of that story, my map was not 0.5% broken, I would rate it at 30% broken because every developed place on the planet was ruined.

I hope that you are joking. I really hope so.

16 minutes ago, bigessess said:

Challenge stands. Answer the questions... or at least this one. How is my prior experience, or lack thereof, in any way related to me being allowed to make a post on a topic about the game in the forum for the game?

Allow? None. You can post what you want as long as you follow the rules of the forum, that is. 

12 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

also, nobody needs to tell the devs that saves corrupt across versions. they constantly TELL you saves won't carry across updates. how could they tell us that if they didn't already know?

As a matter of fact. Not only the devs tell you that. Every modder knows this, particularly the ones that works with biomes and world generators. 

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12 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

there most likely already IS work

So you don't know, so why were you so sure that it will never be done?

 

13 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

people reporting OLD bugs

This is current in 0.8.0.x, the version out at the time of the post

14 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

almost definitely doesn't happen unless you're

Another huge area of the bug finding landscape many people miss.

 

16 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

(the patch notes are public domain, btw, you can see them yourself)

Is there some requirement listed somewhere that I read patch notes before posting on this forum? I must have missed it. Where can I find it?

 

17 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

if you think it's annoying to start a new save in astroneer (it isn't)

As I said more than once in this post, I delete more saves and start more new files per day than any average 5 players easy... *finger twirl* nope, not annoying at all. This is just another bug like the rest of them. Tick some people off more than others. I ride the line of, it is what it is, this is what I found, do with it what you please, this is what I would like as a player.... somehow you seem to have an issue with that, and I think that is funny

 

19 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

imagine putting in hours and hours on something with 'real' progress like WoW or terraria

how is wow or terraria any more 'real' than Astroneer? or any other game? Do you assume that how you value games' save files becomes some kind of rule or law that governs other peoples' desires? Is an hour in Astroneer any more or less valuable than an hour in a different form of wasting time? Again I fail to understand your logic on this, do explain.

 

21 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

it's a simple fact of playing a game that's

I never said anything to the contrary.. in any way. Where do you get the fuel for your fight? Quote the thing that I said that lit your fire, and the things that fueled it...

 

23 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

also, nobody needs to tell the devs that saves corrupt across versions. they constantly TELL you

The devs asked the players to tell. Try reading the screen. Even with a translation error, it should be clear enough. Finally, I have never met, spoken to, or received any message from any dev on this project. I have been told nothing, except to make a post on this forum. Which I did. Which you seem to have some issue with lol

Seriously, this loses the fun if you have nothing better than this... you have failed to respond to the question(s) still

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no requirement to RTFM, but it does indeed help to know what's changed and what to look for. like, say, a save from 0.7 being corrupted in 0.8. if you read the patchnotes at any point in the past year, you'd know that's a pretty common occurrence, and it doesn't help the devs whatsoever to tell them there's a bug in 0.7 when they're already working on 0.9. 

and you should stop taking my quotes (or anybody else's quotes) out of context. i said "real progress", as in you level up your character and get all these items. stop quoting people if you can't/won't regard the context. it's just plain rude.

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10 minutes ago, Chepelink said:

What is broken is

...irrelevant. If it is a problem, it is a problem. It does not matter what brings it about or how much you personally feel one way or the other about it.

12 minutes ago, Chepelink said:

I hope that you are joking. I really hope so.

No. More than 30% of the planet was developed, and 100% of that 30+% was ruined. Now I did not do the math...or count cubic feet... does it matter honestly how much of the save was inaccurate? a problem is a problem.

 

14 minutes ago, Chepelink said:

Allow? None. You can post what you want

That is not the topic of that question. That is directed to the person whose post it was a response to. 2 people have taken on some kind of assumption that before posting I must somehow qualify with some level of experience or something, I have yet to understand their angle. The questions stand unanswered.

 

17 minutes ago, Chepelink said:

As a matter of fact. Not only the devs tell you that. Every modder knows this, particularly the ones that works with biomes and world generators. 

Lets pretend that everyone, myself included, already knows …. Now I ask you this, does that somehow mean a post should not be made listing specific details about the topic? Do the devs just know how to fix this without any outside information? Is this some special kind of fix you have some secret on?

You people act like this post is destructive to the dev's progress in some manner, or that I have disrupted the natural flow of development

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1 minute ago, 101101110111 said:

it does indeed help to know what's changed and what to look for.

It also helps to look for specific details about an issue. If they already know, good. If they didn't know, then they do. How is this upsetting to you?

 

2 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

stop taking my quotes (or anybody else's quotes) out of context

Not a single quote is out of context. Every quoted portion shows a reference to what I say in the reply. If you feel it is out of context, then there is a misunderstanding on one side or the other. Reread what was quoted, and read my direct response to the quote, note that I did not always quote the entire portion, sometimes just the start of the topic to save space, but it should make perfect sense as you read it. If not all I can suggest is ask a question. Like those I have asked that you did not answer lol. I cant wait to hear a reply on those... ready, GO

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5 minutes ago, bigessess said:

Do the devs just know how to fix this without any outside information?

yes. all devs do. they simply don't waste their time on trivial matters during alpha. and yes, compared to thousands of other aspects of the game, preventing version deprecation is quite trivial. version deprecation is, as pointed out numerous times, a FACT of game development. 

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3 minutes ago, bigessess said:

Not a single quote is out of context.

yes. you've chopped a number of quotes to not include the full sentence, and responded to it as if it WAS the full sentence. that's the very definition of "out of context". 

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6 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

yes. you've chopped a number of quotes to not include the full sentence, and responded to it as if it WAS the full sentence. that's the very definition of "out of context". 

No, out of context would suggest that you meant one thing, and I took it in a different way. I completely understood what was partially quoted, and a couple of times just to save space I only quoted the start of it. But as you just admitted, the reply was to the whole part. So you understood it. And are now looking to dodge the questions I asked by creating a new topic to pick on. Every question I have asked you still stands unanswered, dodged, avoided. Even your choice to attempt to flip flop sides of the discussion. Ignored. Owned.

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44 minutes ago, bigessess said:
1 hour ago, Chepelink said:

What is broken is <-

...irrelevant. <-   If it is a problem, it is a problem. It does not matter what brings it about or how much you personally feel one way or the other about it.

3 hours ago, bigessess said:
6 hours ago, Chepelink said:

the save of an old patch is not broken nor corrupted per-se <-

Yes, it is. See the attached photo and the short description in the first post. This was the point of the post to begin with. It IS in fact broken. <-

Now I get it, I was taking you seriously and answering you earnestly, that was my problem. I'll just do it one last time for my own amusement. 

32 minutes ago, bigessess said:

No. More than 30% of the planet was developed, and 100% of that 30+% was ruined. Now I did not do the math...or count cubic feet... does it matter honestly how much of the save was inaccurate? a problem is a problem.

What I wrote was a saying about bugs (bugs, not how broken your map is), you took that saying and put the %0.5 out of it and assumed that it was referring to how much your map is broken. Oranges are not apples. 

35 minutes ago, bigessess said:

That is not the topic of that question. That is directed to the person whose post it was a response to. 2 people have taken on some kind of assumption that before posting I must somehow qualify with some level of experience or something, I have yet to understand their angle. The questions stand unanswered.

I don't know what to say. I just wrote that you were correct. That you don't need in fact to be an expert to post. I know that it is not the topic, you made the question in your own topic about something out of topic, I just supported what I think is correct.

 

39 minutes ago, bigessess said:

You people act like this post is destructive to the dev's progress in some manner, or that I have disrupted the natural flow of development

You, as in me? Did I said, imply or wrote that? If you follow our conversation I basically tried to answer the question that you made to me and point out things that I thought were incorrect or so. 

 

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48 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

except i did answer. your choice to ignore it is your own fault and i can't do much about that

Show me an answer to a single one that I missed or another fail..

Do I have to be one of the above, or something different, for you to consider what I am arguing valid? (one of the above was in reference to either a 50yr old dev, 20 something coder, or arguing teenager)

How are these things related?

If a teenager arguing for kicks reported a legit problem with a game, is his argument less valid than a 50 yr old dev at a AAA studio?

Is the bug different for the two players?

Do the two players deserve a different level of respect in a bug report or a different number of hours of development working on the reported problem?

….And to make it easier for you because you did not give that list, I simplified my questions for you into a single option, which you also ignored, and it is here:

2 hours ago, bigessess said:

Challenge stands. Answer the questions... or at least this one. How is my prior experience, or lack thereof, in any way related to me being allowed to make a post on a topic about the game in the forum for the game?

You have failed to make valid point and are losing entertainment value in this discussion

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26 minutes ago, Chepelink said:

Now I get it, I was taking you seriously and answering you earnestly

that makes no sense what so ever. The things you quoted stand. Argue this: If a problem is found how is it not a problem? The point of this post was to put attention to that problem. How are either of those things not serious enough or literal enough for you? What makes it so difficult to understand

 

29 minutes ago, Chepelink said:

What I wrote was a saying about bugs

So are you saying that 0.5% of the bugs ruined the map? I do not understand where 0.5% comes in to play when reporting a bug. How does that matter or how is it connected? The map has a problem, plain and simple.

 

31 minutes ago, Chepelink said:

I know that it is not the topic, you made the question in your own topic about something out of topic, I just supported what I think is correct.

Why would you purposely drag my response to someone else out of context then? Complete waste of more time going off the topic that was off the topic of this thread to begin with. 

 

32 minutes ago, Chepelink said:

You, as in me? Did I said, imply or wrote that?

idk, did you? if so then yes, if not then no... why ask me what you wrote, you should remember or at least keep that part quiet and go read it again for yourself.

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On 6/22/2018 at 4:25 PM, Chepelink said:

I can't think of a way to explain to you the nature of the beast.  It seems that you don't understand basic concepts about  complexity. I already told you that, as long as they don't make patches that alter world's generation and similar, they already have a viable save system. Thus, you don't have to worry about saving as long as they don't alter the physics of the world. They are fine. But, on the other hand, if they improve the physics of the world and world generation, you can expect to have problems with your saves. That is the nature of the beast.

I don't think you yet understand my position. As a customer, I do not care how involved or complex the whole process is. I just want results. Let me simplify it for you: if I order a burger at a restaurant, I don't care about the complexity of how the burger was prepared. I just want to enjoy my meal. If after taking a bite out of the burger I'm not satisfied, I will absolutely let someone know. That is my right and my prerogative as a customer. If the restaurant owner doesn't like it, boo-hoo. Maybe they should look into what is causing the dissatisfaction instead of staying silent.

I work in IT, and I've dabbled in coding a bit. I very well know the meaning of the word "complexity." In the real world, when an individual or a team is given a task that is too complex for them, usually that person/team will say something, and the company determines if additional resources need to be allocated, or if external help is needed. Maybe the SES team in charge of that department needs help in figuring out some of these issues. Nobody here works in their office, so we all just don't really know the complexities of the issue. We can all sit here and speculate all we want, but that's just that: mere speculation.

I know the game is still in early access, but it's been in that state for more than a year and a half, and now it's less than 6 months away for supposed release. They've had plenty of time to work on this. But since they don't tell us anything, we just don't know...

On 6/22/2018 at 4:25 PM, Chepelink said:

It is very hard to address the public in a way that pleases everyone.

I do not care how they address their own community, as long as they do so in a somewhat consistent manner through all of their available channels. Where are they in this conversation? What's their position? Are they working on a potential fix? I don't know the real answers to these questions. Do you?

On 6/22/2018 at 4:25 PM, Chepelink said:

I cannot answer that for them, but the labels in the game are pretty clear: Alpha state. They can do a open beta, a closed beta or both; it is their choice. If they expect to launch by December, they should have already thought about a Beta period.

My point was that they have not announced any beta. They announced a general release date, not any beta periods. We all know it's their choice, but at this time, we all don't know.

On 6/22/2018 at 4:25 PM, Chepelink said:

Think for a second what do you think is going to happen if someone from the dev team answer ONE question. Suddenly they are going to be bombarded with hundreds of questions, hundreds of suggestions, hundreds of every thing, and everyone would feel entitle for an answer from the devs. 

Maybe, just maybe, if they were more open with their community, it wouldn't have to come to that. But they have chosen to stay away from this forum, which is their own official one, by the way, for whatever reason.

"Hey gang! We're a working on a possible fix for this issue, which is planned to be deployed on the XXXXX patch. Stay tuned for more info!"

That took me less than a minute to type. That tells me that they have acknowledged the issue, that something is being done, and it will be deployed on or around XXXXX. All the confusion and all these pointless conversations would just go away. Maybe there is a fix coming, who knows. But their silence speaks volumes.

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On 6/22/2018 at 4:32 PM, 101101110111 said:

for all we know, they HAVE figured out a viable solution, but it's item number 37614 behind a list of far larger issues. this bug seems important to YOU, but that doesn't make it The Most Important Bug of All. your bug is roughly a 0.001% occurrence or so (and 99.999% chance it's tied to data corruption from updates which we already KNOW won't happen after release when updates aren't monthly+massive anymore); there's crash bugs out there that are 100% occurance.

Speculation does not help the conversation. Unless your user name has a "SES" prefix, you can't possibly know anything for a fact...

On 6/22/2018 at 4:32 PM, 101101110111 said:

as a paying customer in early access (as with any pre-release game), you should realize you have responsibilities too.

I know this, and I've done my part. I've reported bugs and made suggestions. The devs also have a few responsibilities of their own that they have chosen not to do. If SES chooses not to take part in these conversations, that's a whole other issue. They have the responsibility to keep us, their investors, the people who believed in them enough to give them our money for an unfinished product, in the loop. They are failing at that...

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5 hours ago, vvhorus said:

if I order a burger at a restaurant, I don't care about the complexity of how the burger was prepared. I just want to enjoy my meal. If after taking a bite out of the burger I'm not satisfied, I will absolutely let someone know. That is my right and my prerogative as a customer.

That is right, that is you right as a customer. But, at the same time, the restaurant has the right to sell its product with the ingredients and its understanding on what a hamburger is. Now, if you say "Hey this is not a hamburger" or just don't like it, it is in your right to point it out, even if you are right or they are right, but there restaurant does not need to change the menu just for you. Now, you, as a customer have the right to leave the restaurant and never come back and maybe ask for a refund. If they don't fulfill what you expect them to do, you just don't come back. Otherwise you are just being a crybaby that has no single share of autonomous thinking and self-awareness about what your actions are doing.

Furthermore, you are allow to participate in the making process of the hamburger. A participation that has their own caveats. You have your input on it as much as I do. And, even if you are a paying customer, so do I. So, your opinion has as much or as little value as mine. Now, If we were really in a restaurant, what do you think the paying customer base that are enjoying their meal would ask the restaurant to do with an obnoxious client that does not know proper etiquette? So, I'm very well aware of what a paying customer is and what are our rights, do you? If I sound rude it is because I'm fed up with you "i'm a client" rhetoric that hold no argumentative value.

6 hours ago, vvhorus said:

Where are they in this conversation? What's their position? Are they working on a potential fix?

But before.

6 hours ago, vvhorus said:

As a customer, I do not care how involved or complex the whole process is. I just want results.

 Hypocrite much?

Now, 

6 hours ago, vvhorus said:

I do not care how they address their own community, as long as they do so in a somewhat consistent manner through all of their available channels.

This suggest me that there are other channels... why don't you go there? Is it because you don't want to or it is because you think that they should be talking here in their forum? Anyway, it is your choice, and your rights as a paying customer to go to their public available channels. And they have the right, by the way, to put as much or little attention to their channels as they see fit or want.

Now, you may want to print this since you don't care about the process and how involved it is and think that it is the answer from the devs: "The feature may or may not be in place, may or may not be worked on and may or not may be in the final cut of the game. We are doing as much as possible to satisfy our customer base, but there are unforeseen problems within the development of the game and we are trying to put a cohesive game in a timely manner, thus, we have to make decisions that could potentially make some features not as developed as we wished for or even being included in the final product. Thanks for your understanding". And there you go, you have a nice response to the topic in hand by the developers to someone that does not care about the whats, why and how, but only the results.

6 hours ago, vvhorus said:

"Hey gang! We're a working on a possible fix for this issue, which is planned to be deployed on the XXXXX patch. Stay tuned for more info!"... .... That took me less than a minute to type.

You can print that and used instead of mine if you wish, since it is a generalized thing that does nothing to whatever they are doing. I still prefer mine because it can be used to anything they develop, but, well, anyone to their own.

Now, I don't really know about how big or small SES is, but I think that (if they can afford it) they should have a public relations person in charge of these thing. But I also understand why they don't really want to do it... the smell of No Man's Sky is still in the air, even though they made a wonderful job to improve their situation.

 

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14 hours ago, Chepelink said:

Hypocrite much?

I do not care about the complexity of the process. I do care that the end result is satisfactory. I do care that they are silent in this conversation while their community is at each other's throats over an issue that can be clarified with one simple statement on their part. Nothing hypocrite about that...

15 hours ago, Chepelink said:

This suggest me that there are other channels... why don't you go there? Is it because you don't want to or it is because you think that they should be talking here in their forum? Anyway, it is your choice, and your rights as a paying customer to go to their public available channels. And they have the right, by the way, to put as much or little attention to their channels as they see fit or want.

I don't use twitter. My facebook time is very limited. All information I get for games come from email newsletters, logging to the games' forums or from youtube, or maybe if a post just happens to pop up while checking my facebook feed. If the devs are not willing to use their own forums like every other game developer out there (for which they are paying good money, I might add), they should just save all those monthly fees and close it down. They want us to join the conversation. What conversation? According to the company's web site, Joe is supposed to be the "communications" guy. His job is to be here, literally...

15 hours ago, Chepelink said:

Now, you may want to print this since you don't care about the process and how involved it is and think that it is the answer from the devs: "The feature may or may not be in place, may or may not be worked on and may or not may be in the final cut of the game. We are doing as much as possible to satisfy our customer base, but there are unforeseen problems within the development of the game and we are trying to put a cohesive game in a timely manner, thus, we have to make decisions that could potentially make some features not as developed as we wished for or even being included in the final product. Thanks for your understanding". And there you go, you have a nice response to the topic in hand by the developers to someone that does not care about the whats, why and how, but only the results.

How long did that take you to type? Two, three minutes, tops? See how easy a statement from the developers is to post? I would have appreciated that response from the developers instead of silence...

15 hours ago, Chepelink said:

Now, I don't really know about how big or small SES is, but I think that (if they can afford it) they should have a public relations person in charge of these thing. But I also understand why they don't really want to do it... the smell of No Man's Sky is still in the air, even though they made a wonderful job to improve their situation.

Now this is something we can agree on.

SES should not let fear hold them back. They have a potential winner on their hands. If they play it smart, this little engine can and will climb the mountain all the way to the top. But if the devs allow all this community bickering because of their silence, it's not going to be healthy for the game. Whether good or bad (especially bad), word of mouth spreads throughout gaming communities, most notably on Reddit (look what happened to SW:BF2). If this issue is left unaddressed beyond release, the backlash from new players will be swift and merciless. I see games such as Warframe, which started with nothing and now it's one of the hottest and most successful games available. One thing Digital Extremes did right from the beginning was to listen and engage the community throughout the whole development process. This is the example that SES needs to follow...

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4 hours ago, vvhorus said:

Nothing hypocrite about that...

Let's see, you don't care about how complex it is, how involved it is, what are the underlay mechanics nor the process, not even at a basic pure generalized concept level. Is that right? As you said, you want only results. That is your position, and that is fine. But you want them to answer your questions? You don't care about the answers.

Let's use this question: "are you going to improve and reduce the corruption of the old saves after a patch?". You have basically 3 answers: "YES", "NO", and the "MAYBE" category. If they say "YES" you have no qualm about it. But, if they say "NO" or "MAYBE", you are going to ask why, right? If not, you don't care also about their position nor their take on the matter, so you only want your way. You just care about them saying "YES", and that is even worse. Though, maybe you would take the word of the devs and not ask question after that (and that would make me ask, so, why do you want to talk with the devs again?). But I digress. If you don't see how asking "WHY" is hypocrite of you when you don't care about the "WHY", I can't help you. And yes, they are building a game, of course their answers are tied to the process of it: how complex it is, how much time they have, and how much money the have left to do it... and those last two are intrinsically tied to "COMPLEXITY". And this question is much more technical that just asking "are you going to add alien life?", where they can answer looking at the fantasy lore of the game, the topic, the immersion that they want for the game.

4 hours ago, vvhorus said:

I don't use twitter. My facebook time is very limited. All information I get for games come from email newsletters, logging to the games' forums or from youtube, or maybe if a post just happens to pop up while checking my facebook feed.

I do have twitter but I don't used it. So? That is on me, not them.

4 hours ago, vvhorus said:

If the devs are not willing to use their own forums like every other game developer out there

Like what games? Have you seen WoW forums and how they are involved? They are more involved, yes, but they are not near of what YOU want. And we are talking about a behemoth of company as Blizzard. Again, is up to them how the use the forum. And I'm going to ask you, are you sure they are not using the forums right now? They are not engaging in it, but that is not the same as "using it". 

4 hours ago, vvhorus said:

They want us to join the conversation. What conversation?

I'm engaging in the conversation about their game with you, how is not that a successful forum? How is we talking about the features that we want to see not worth using the forum? If you want a one to one with the devs use twitter... because there you can address them directly... that is the use of twitter. 

5 hours ago, vvhorus said:

According to the company's web site, Joe is supposed to be the "communications" guy. His job is to be here, literally...

"Communications" guy is not just talking to the public, you know? They have to be tactful how they talk to the public. They have to know how to talk to them... and yes, that is his job. But what you are missing is the "HOW", and if the "HOW" is not engage in this kind of conversations, that, well, is his call as an expert. Do you imagine the kind of backlash that No man's sky would have received if the communication guy just have said "we don't know"? Well, let me tell you, it would be not as near as bad as it was. They build hype unnecessarily and used the communication guy badly.

5 hours ago, vvhorus said:

Now this is something we can agree on... zip

Look, there are good and bad examples about how communication guy can help or ruin a game. But something that very few gaming companies, particular small ones have, is a proper communication guy. Blizzard learnt it a few years ago. Other games have learnt it and put resources in that. But there is also a lack of proper communications guys in the industry with the experience to tackle this kind of problems. The gaming industry, at least in terms of public relationships, has very little experience. It is also as young as the internet. 

Why is there a lack of this experts? Because they have to understand the process at least at a basic level to answer questions. They have to be in touch with the developer side of the work to understand the scope of the game they are making. They need to have a background in proper community communication and management. Thus, they need someone that is half game developer half communication expert. And that is something that are not quite present right now. As far as I know the industry start to tackle this issue, but there are a lot of uncharted areas. Is not as politics that have a hefty history and experience in its back.

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1 hour ago, Chepelink said:

Let's see, you don't care about how complex it is, how involved it is, what are the underlay mechanics nor the process, not even at a basic pure generalized concept level. Is that right? As you said, you want only results. That is your position, and that is fine. But you want them to answer your questions? You don't care about the answers.

Let's use this question: "are you going to improve and reduce the corruption of the old saves after a patch?". You have basically 3 answers: "YES", "NO", and the "MAYBE" category. If they say "YES" you have no qualm about it. But, if they say "NO" or "MAYBE", you are going to ask why, right? If not, you don't care also about their position nor their take on the matter, so you only want your way. You just care about them saying "YES", and that is even worse. Though, maybe you would take the word of the devs and not ask question after that (and that would make me ask, so, why do you want to talk with the devs again?). But I digress. If you don't see how asking "WHY" is hypocrite of you when you don't care about the "WHY", I can't help you. And yes, they are building a game, of course their answers are tied to the process of it: how complex it is, how much time they have, and how much money the have left to do it... and those last two are intrinsically tied to "COMPLEXITY". And this question is much more technical that just asking "are you going to add alien life?", where they can answer looking at the fantasy lore of the game, the topic, the immersion that they want for the game.

I do have twitter but I don't used it. So? That is on me, not them.

Like what games? Have you seen WoW forums and how they are involved? They are more involved, yes, but they are not near of what YOU want. And we are talking about a behemoth of company as Blizzard. Again, is up to them how the use the forum. And I'm going to ask you, are you sure they are not using the forums right now? They are not engaging in it, but that is not the same as "using it". 

I'm engaging in the conversation about their game with you, how is not that a successful forum? How is we talking about the features that we want to see not worth using the forum? If you want a one to one with the devs use twitter... because there you can address them directly... that is the use of twitter. 

"Communications" guy is not just talking to the public, you know? They have to be tactful how they talk to the public. They have to know how to talk to them... and yes, that is his job. But what you are missing is the "HOW", and if the "HOW" is not engage in this kind of conversations, that, well, is his call as an expert. Do you imagine the kind of backlash that No man's sky would have received if the communication guy just have said "we don't know"? Well, let me tell you, it would be not as near as bad as it was. They build hype unnecessarily and used the communication guy badly.

Look, there are good and bad examples about how communication guy can help or ruin a game. But something that very few gaming companies, particular small ones have, is a proper communication guy. Blizzard learnt it a few years ago. Other games have learnt it and put resources in that. But there is also a lack of proper communications guys in the industry with the experience to tackle this kind of problems. The gaming industry, at least in terms of public relationships, has very little experience. It is also as young as the internet. 

Why is there a lack of this experts? Because they have to understand the process at least at a basic level to answer questions. They have to be in touch with the developer side of the work to understand the scope of the game they are making. They need to have a background in proper community communication and management. Thus, they need someone that is half game developer half communication expert. And that is something that are not quite present right now. As far as I know the industry start to tackle this issue, but there are a lot of uncharted areas. Is not as politics that have a hefty history and experience in its back.

Let's just agree to disagree, shall we? You clearly prefer to be apologetic. I just can't be. Nothing will come out of this pointless debate. Let's leave it at that, no need for another irrelevant and apologetic wall of text...

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I feel the pain of the OP. Having spent the better part of a week with friends building some perfect bases and buildings....then update and bam!!! Fractured world! But it really is Early Access and as such it is almost always the case that anything before actual launch will be lost at some point. Take the time from now till December (oh boy! I can't wait!) to sharpen your techniques and when the live version is released we can start a digital bonfire with all our piles of alpha broken world bases.

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