Major lockups occurring when a LOT of tethers are connected together..


Acecool
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I started a new game to try out some of the new features. I found a lot of compound right off the bad and immediately built as many tethers as I could and ran straight in one direction for a long time, then added some into other directions.. Then I went over the mountain in between and connected them up...

Plus I went through a few caves...

 

There are probably hundreds together.. When I place a new tether linked to that route, nothing happens for a few seconds - can't even look around - while the data is updated...

 

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having too many causes the system to lock up because it looks for the oxygen source it is connected to and works through all possible iterations. You can fix this by putting mini-bases along the line or a few small rovers.

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Or a large platform will break up the network. 

But yeah it's a known issue that large tether networks are too CPU intensive. 

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I have been having crashing issues as well.  I also have a lot of tethers, but my CPU is practically idling.

I''ll try the platforms.

But it seems very random.  Sometimes I can play for more than an hour.  Sometimes a few minutes.  I'm in my truck now, so I don't use tethers much, except to climb up hills after spacecraft.  Or leave them for landmarks.

I have noticed a time or two that the tethers go black when they are connected properly.  I usually pick up a tether and re-plop it down and it jump starts it again.

 

I think they maybe need to focus on getting the tethers to work properly as it is crashing computers.  Seems a high priority to me. 

I don't want to give up my tethers.  lol

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21 minutes ago, MarkJohnson said:

I have been having crashing issues as well.  I also have a lot of tethers, but my CPU is practically idling.

Are you crashing, or stuttering/freezing?

They're definitely aware of the issues with tethers and made some massive improvements in version 0.6 - it's very noticeable on Xbox - but many more performance improvements are coming! 

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It crashes so hard I have to hold the power button down to turn it off.  Then my computer goes into a recovery mode.

I have triple monitors and each monitor is a different color.  no sound, no mouse, nothing.  It's completely dead, except the monitors each a different background color.  No BSOD blue nor any messages.

I sent a log once a week or so ago.  Even posted a message here.  I heard nothing from them as it is probably a common issues. Likely this tether thing.  I'll collect some more, or maybe start new with no tethers.  or at least collect them when done.

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Bummer.  I just started a new game.  I have only built the large platform and research thing and found a spacecraft research pod.  I then made 4 canisters for future mineral extractor.  I then made 1 tethers and headed to the cave to find more research pods.  I didn't even use up those first tethers and it locked up.

It is definitely a much bigger issue than just too many tethers.

This was a single session of maybe a half an hour at tops.

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3 hours ago, MarkJohnson said:

 

This was a single session of maybe a half an hour at tops.

Yeah, this is probably a different issue. The tether problem is demonstrable by making 2 large separate networks then connecting them and watching the frame rate get destroyed. 

There has been a new crashing issue discovered whereby, on systems with Realtek audio, there is a driver conflict between the Realtek and Nvidia audio drivers. Uninstalling the Nvidia audio drivers solves the crash. You could try that. 

You could also try reducing quality as the game's not wholly (or very)  optimized yet and it may be causing some skulduggery with you multi-monitor setup. 

There are a multitude of other issues it could be too. Though the devs don't respond to everything, they have stated that they appreciate the feedback being sent in.

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Yeah - I'm not crashing - just locking up while the entire network is processed...

 

Honestly the network should act similarly to that of a doubly linked list ( with more than 2 links allowed )... Linked list has a link to the previous element in the list ( if first then loops to the end - this isn't necessarily needed in the case of tethers but it wouldn't hurt performance and could help to have it ), and the neighbor plus a node object ( the tether )....

Then, callbacks can be triggered on these cases...

- if a single tether / node is disconnected and it isn't at the end then don't worry about it... ( no need to reparse the entire network if you reposition the last node )

- If a single tether is disconnected and it isn't the last one - find out it's position ( an id / counter would be useful to keep in the chain - the node references can be shifted instead of the nodes all being reparsed when one is removed from the beginning to simplify id changes )... then disconnect oxygen for all tethers beyond that point ( can be done in a thread - like a pressurized tube slowly leaking air to prevent lockups too )

 

Very simple checks, and useful overhead to get rid of the lockups 90% of the time until fully optimized - but this type of list wouldn't be a bad fit with some modifications for the system... And, as I said.. when you disconnect one in the middle - check the First / Last element on both sides of the piece removed to see which has air, and which doesn't... This would be O( 1 ) check if you have a first / last overhead value to the list object ( and they'd be split into 2 )... so if no air is found on one side, very fast check, then either leak air immediately and have the line go dark one by one ( fast ) over the entire unhooked system... OR wait until the user tries to draw air, allow a tiny bit of air ( hose still pressurized ) and that's all they get... the rope could turn another color and that would also be O( 1 ) check to do... if list object has oxygen source - blue.. else if is pressurized then green else navy....

 

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Edit: For determining the amount of air left in the tubes after disconnect ( you could lose the air / hiss it from one hose but they're probably all pressure-connectors so air wouldn't leak unless damaged - storm? ) to be the volume of a cylinder over the range left in the link.....

2 values would be immediate - max ( if max distance was used between each pole for every pole )... and minimum ( smallest distance ) which doesn't give much...

A better idea would be to actually store in the list object the length of each rope from one to the next and store it in the main list object ( add it up / subtract ) - splitting in the middle would be slightly different but you could just grab the average distance over the entire count of the left minus the link removed, and the count of the other side of the tether base removed multiplied by the volume... and that would give you an O( 1 ) value for how much air is left in the tubes to use... and to make it balanced - allow it to be used only once - ie you use it and the pressure drops so the pressure fitting doesn't re-seal with lower pressure so you lose the rest if not all was used...

 

Realism solution, removing lag, etc.... 

 

For junctions which branch into more than 2 pipes coming off - treat that junction as the start of a new list pretty much... that'd simplify it - and you can have connected junctions added to the pipe so if a callback is needed you can have a list of these in the primary list object line to update or check for oxygen coming in...

The object gets a bit bigger with more overhead - but it is doable to a point where everything should be O( 1 ) - and the callbacks would be subdivided over frames or using other actions which would still be O( n ) but subdivided so much less performance hit...

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On 3/30/2018 at 8:53 AM, Acecool said:

I started a new game to try out some of the new features. I found a lot of compound right off the bad and immediately built as many tethers as I could and ran straight in one direction for a long time, then added some into other directions.. Then I went over the mountain in between and connected them up...

Plus I went through a few caves...

 

There are probably hundreds together.. When I place a new tether linked to that route, nothing happens for a few seconds - can't even look around - while the data is updated...

 

Can you send us this save file? We're aware of the performance issues with tethers and are going to be making some improvements to the system soon, and it always helps to be able to measure exactly how much our changes improve the experience for saves that are currently performing poorly. 

Your saves are located in <Steam install directory>\steamapps\common\ASTRONEER Early Access\Astro\Saved\SaveGames

Thanks!

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On 3/31/2018 at 6:54 PM, Blind Io said:

Yeah, this is probably a different issue. The tether problem is demonstrable by making 2 large separate networks then connecting them and watching the frame rate get destroyed. 

There has been a new crashing issue discovered whereby, on systems with Realtek audio, there is a driver conflict between the Realtek and Nvidia audio drivers. Uninstalling the Nvidia audio drivers solves the crash. You could try that. 

You could also try reducing quality as the game's not wholly (or very)  optimized yet and it may be causing some skulduggery with you multi-monitor setup. 

There are a multitude of other issues it could be too. Though the devs don't respond to everything, they have stated that they appreciate the feedback being sent in.

I have some improvement I think now.  I had windows update GPU drivers from July, 2017.   The new stable is Feb, 2018 and I get lockups on desktop.  Same with the beta March, 2018 v4.  I used DDU to wipe all traces of the driver and downloaded directly from AMD instead of Dell (alienware) and it occasionally locks up at desktop, but so far my last 3 game sessions have been error. free.

 

As you can see I don't have nvidia.  I also never install anything but bare GPU drivers.  The other crap has too many extra chances for failure.  My monitors don't have speakers anyways and I use desktop 2.1 speakers instead.

 

I was gonna try connecting all 3 of my hugely long tethers together and see what happens.  I forgot, but I'll try next time and see what happens.

I also use 28inch 4k monitors.  But I only use one display.  I find using 3 doesn't really help in anything but driving games.  But I can try low res and med quality and see what happens.  I seem to get micro stutter occasionally.  Nothing too big.

But yeah, the feedback on these issues will be very beneficial in tracking down issues.  I probably have an oddball system,  i7-8700k & vega 64 plus a Dell.  lol

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