Martin

Improved Research 501

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Not sure I really understand the improvements, seems the research seed outputs at a high to low amount or low to high or random amounts as it is progressed,  now this could make using extra generators in early game react differently, so you'd need to baby sit the system more, to get the best efficiency, but for the most part it doesn't really matter.  Once you get some solars down, you just ignore the changed, plonk in the seeds, activate them and leave them be.

Seems like extra effort for almost no real difference in researching.  And once you get medium solars installed, you're just sticking the seeds in, activating the module and then off to get more seeds.

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29 minutes ago, Martin said:

Not sure I really understand the improvements, seems the research seed outputs at a high to low amount or low to high or random amounts as it is progressed,  now this could make using extra generators in early game react differently, so you'd need to baby sit the system more, to get the best efficiency, but for the most part it doesn't really matter.  Once you get some solars down, you just ignore the changed, plonk in the seeds, activate them and leave them be.

Seems like extra effort for almost no real difference in researching.  And once you get medium solars installed, you're just sticking the seeds in, activating the module and then off to get more seeds.

All they've done is convoluted the research even more, do they actually believe that this will make the game more enjoyable to play.

You're right about one thing, most players won't waste their time sitting around, watching the chamber displays, waiting for the right time to change to new seed, I'm guessing some might at the beginning.

Just using a calculator, you can pretty much figure out which ones will give you a better average bytes per minute. All the resources have terrible averages. Look at Astronium, 4689 and 42:46 minutes that comes out to 1.83 average and most of the gain is at the end.

Here's some of the 5 best ones I've found so far playing last night.

J69gi8F.jpg

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You can also now research titanium which gives 2k and also malachite and the other one are around 800 each or something.. so if you have an excess aluminium and copper ores.. the refined items are only 180 tho.  Not seen lithium yet but guessing it's still around same.

I started with a row of 6 research modules in my new game, keeping them filled is abit of a problem, even making runs, but now have truck so should get abit easier.

Edited by Martin

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11 hours ago, Martin said:

Not sure I really understand the improvements, seems the research seed outputs at a high to low amount or low to high or random amounts as it is progressed,  now this could make using extra generators in early game react differently, so you'd need to baby sit the system more, to get the best efficiency, but for the most part it doesn't really matter.  Once you get some solars down, you just ignore the changed, plonk in the seeds, activate them and leave them be.

Seems like extra effort for almost no real difference in researching.  And once you get medium solars installed, you're just sticking the seeds in, activating the module and then off to get more seeds.

 

10 hours ago, Mak-a-Face said:

All they've done is convoluted the research even more, do they actually believe that this will make the game more enjoyable to play.

You're right about one thing, most players won't waste their time sitting around, watching the chamber displays, waiting for the right time to change to new seed, I'm guessing some might at the beginning.

Just using a calculator, you can pretty much figure out which ones will give you a better average bytes per minute. All the resources have terrible averages. Look at Astronium, 4689 and 42:46 minutes that comes out to 1.83 average and most of the gain is at the end.

Resources having a low bpm rate is one way to nerf sediment farming/conversion into research and I stand behind that. Could even be a lower bpm AFAIAC. But, I too wonder how many players will babysit their research chamber(s) to maximize the amount of bytes they get per unit of energy.

Granted, it remains a huge improvement over the previous lottery model but if anyone in the know is reading, care to explain what the thinking and logic are behind the move?

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2 hours ago, Eoghan said:

Resources having a low bpm rate is one way to nerf sediment farming/conversion into research and I stand behind that. Could even be a lower bpm AFAIAC. But, I too wonder how many players will babysit their research chamber(s) to maximize the amount of bytes they get per unit of energy.

Why would they even think of adding resources to be research-able in the first place. I don't understand the thinking behind this decision but heck, I still don't even understand the reasoning to turn dirt into a resource either. On the subject of farming, look at what this new research 2.0 has created, Research Farms! I remember when they decide to nerf the trading platform because players were creating huge hydrazine farms. We're there again, now that they've turned research into a currency.

3 hours ago, Eoghan said:

Granted, it remains a huge improvement over the previous lottery model but if anyone in the know is reading, care to explain what the thinking and logic are behind the move?

This is where I differ with you, what I'm seeing, is a copout by the team to make the anniversary deadline and this is what they came up with. And now they add this multi-phase rates, this is like putting lipstick on a pig. Doesn't do anything to improve the research, just muddies the whole thing.

In my opinion, the best option would be to start over. The only thing wrong with the old version was the randomness. What I've suggested in the research 2.0 feedback thread, was to use all 35 artifacts including zebra balls to create different combinations to unlock the plans. How many combinations could you create using 35 artifacts plus zebra balls? This is where you could even hide certain artifacts on certain planets. On top of that, I would definitely add a tech tree too.

But you know what, I really don't think they listen to what we say on the forum. They seem to be more concerned with the social media platforms.

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To be fair, why would they pay a lot of attention to a discussion board where so many of the people don't understand THE GAME IS STILL IN ALPHA?  (They do pay attention though, by the way.  Quite a few of the changes have been things suggested or requested here.)

The current method is an enormous improvement over the old random system.  And it has a long way to go in development, just like the rest of the game.

A couple things I'd like to see at some point:

1. Nerf the research on the resources.  Maybe the first nugget gives full points, but every one after that is less.  If you already researched Laterite, what would you really gain by doing it again?

2.  Add some type of "scanner" (maybe something you have to unlock) that can do a scan of a crash site and feed that data in as research points.  It could be a small, single-use item.  Print it on the backpack.  Plug it into the wreckage to get the points, and then it doesn't detach so the same wreck can't just be farmed for points repeatedly.

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Turn dirt into a resource, I'm thinking something along the lines of gold panning.. where you pan for gold.. by sieving dirt in rivers.. that the extractor is just doing this.. except it finds alot of compound etc in dirt but very little astronium or lithium.

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3 hours ago, Indomitus1973 said:

To be fair, why would they pay a lot of attention to a discussion board where so many of the people don't understand THE GAME IS STILL IN ALPHA?  (They do pay attention though, by the way.  Quite a few of the changes have been things suggested or requested here.)

They are protesting 🕵️‍♀️  "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!!?"

3 hours ago, Indomitus1973 said:
3 hours ago, Indomitus1973 said:

 

1. Nerf the research on the resources.  Maybe the first nugget gives full points, but every one after that is less.  If you already researched Laterite, what would you really gain by doing it again?

 

SSSSSHH!! 👀

3 hours ago, Indomitus1973 said:

2.  Add some type of "scanner" (maybe something you have to unlock) that can do a scan of a crash site and feed that data in as research points.  It could be a small, single-use item.  Print it on the backpack.  Plug it into the wreckage to get the points, and then it doesn't detach so the same wreck can't just be farmed for points repeatedly.

+4!

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11 hours ago, Indomitus1973 said:

To be fair, why would they pay a lot of attention to a discussion board where so many of the people don't understand THE GAME IS STILL IN ALPHA?  (They do pay attention though, by the way.  Quite a few of the changes have been things suggested or requested here.)

We understand the game is in alpha and we understand that some player suggestions have made it into the game, or will. What we don't understand is the logic behind some decisions and that's why are posting here hoping that someone will explain and that we'll "see the light" too.

Something that looks interesting on paper will not necessarily work in-game. Remember when the the research you'd get was based on the kind of chest you analysed? Interesting idea, I agree. But was it fun to unlock 50 chests and end up with the enclosed 3-seat, the crane, a pile of useless filters but no medium solar panel or rover?

Astroneer is an exploration game but if we look at recent changes, they seem to encourage us to stay at our base to either farm sediment or babysit a research chamber farm.

 

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On 1/18/2018 at 6:16 AM, Martin said:

You can also now research titanium which gives 2k and also malachite and the other one are around 800 each or something.. so if you have an excess aluminium and copper ores.. the refined items are only 180 tho.  Not seen lithium yet but guessing it's still around same.

I started with a row of 6 research modules in my new game, keeping them filled is abit of a problem, even making runs, but now have truck so should get abit easier.

Lithium is now only worth 500 bytes! Haven’t found astronium yet but have found the new unnamed purple resource on barren. That doesn’t have a byte worth yet. Also, has anyone tried to research the zebra balls? There has to be a use for those at some point being they’ve been a part of the game since release. 

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On 19/01/2018 at 2:26 PM, Indomitus1973 said:

A couple things I'd like to see at some point:

1. Nerf the research on the resources.  Maybe the first nugget gives full points, but every one after that is less.  If you already researched Laterite, what would you really gain by doing it again?

2.  Add some type of "scanner" (maybe something you have to unlock) that can do a scan of a crash site and feed that data in as research points.  It could be a small, single-use item.  Print it on the backpack.  Plug it into the wreckage to get the points, and then it doesn't detach so the same wreck can't just be farmed for points repeatedly.

+1 to both of these ideas.

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On 1/19/2018 at 9:30 PM, Eoghan said:

Astroneer is an exploration game but if we look at recent changes, they seem to encourage us to stay at our base to either farm sediment or babysit a research chamber farm.

 

What is happening is there is an awful lot of work being put into the game "engine" and not a whole lot into what you could call game "balance", or "story".

Sure, some will claim it's an Alpha, but by this point there should be some pretty good ground rules as to what the game is all about, and how you determine/reward player "progress".  At the moment, it's more of a "Throw it at the wall and see if it sticks" paradigm, versus a more focused effort that parallels the development of the "tools/engine" of the game.  It's a lot like some Hollywood movies that start shooting before the script is finished!

Without a doubt, the game is/was inspired by "The Martian", and in some ways it mirrors the loneliness, immediate peril, and need to start from scratch, but the underlying narrative (if there will ever be one) is missing and in a lot of cases currently broken.

Edited by AstroBubba
sp.

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