AstroBubba

Mineral Extractor far too OP?

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The point most of you are making here is actually the same point. That we each play our own way.  Nothing is op and everything is.  And none of it even matters.  Because we all play our own way.

Wether you like it or lump it.. it's entirely your own choice.  Just don't force your choice on any/every one else.

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I don't understand the comments about the game limiting the desire to explore and build. I love doing both. I'm currently sitting at 114 hours of gameplay, and the longest I've been afk during that time would be maybe 10 minutes here or there. No overnight running of the game or anything of the sort. Over 100 hours of active gaming. On one planet. Exploring and building.

I've unlocked everything there is to unlock, yet I still enjoy going out on the same planet I've been on the entire time and making long trips to see what I can find. I can make any resource I want using the extractor (and the trade platform if I mismanage my inventory), and I *like* that because it means I can spend more time exploring and enjoying the artwork the devs put into the game and less time stressing over not finding lithium. It means I can spend more time obsessing over straight lines in whatever I'm building, or more time looking for really weird research items that I know I don't need but like finding anyway. I have 30+ unused research items yet I like finding more.

The game caters to many different playstyles. It's up to each individual to play in a way that gives them the playtime they trying to get out of the game. If someone feels the extractor is too difficult, as others have suggested it may be best to play without it. Don't like oxygen tanks because they make the game too easy? Don't use them.  Don't want to build to escape the storms because that's too easy? Then don't build and instead find an existing hole or cavern or debris to hide in.  There are soooo many ways people can customize this game to be whatever they want, yet for whatever reason many people choose not to do that.

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On 2/16/2018 at 11:34 AM, Chepelink said:

If you stat to reaaaally think about why an item that duplicates items (and not for free, you have to harvest energy and soil first) might kill your sense of exploration you would find that is because the world is not worthy enough of being explored as it is.

I think this is really the key problem here and once the devs get the core features in place and start adding real content we won't hear about this as often. The game in its current state doesn't give you any reason to explore other than to find more resources or research pods and you don't need very much or either to unlock/build one of everything. Saying the mineral extractor takes away any reason to explore and makes the game too easy is true, but only because they haven't added in anything YET to find or do. 

I have issues with the games "Balance" currently BUT it is hard to really balance anything when they aren't done building the scale. I felt like the mineral extractor was too OP when they first released it. I figured it should require more soil/power or something to make it a better choice to explore but all those changes would do is slow the game down and make players dig a bigger hole.  Personally I don't really use the mineral extractor to make anything other than the occasional compound or resin when I'm too lazy to drive 2 minutes away from my base to dig some up (and it gives me something to do with soil I've collected as I play). As the game currently exists, what could they really to with the mineral extractor to make the game MORE FUN? 

I'm all for an open world/base building/sandbox game BUT that sandbox needs to have things in it to find to make exploration feel rewarding. These things will get added in eventually but first they have to finish building the sandbox and getting the core elements in place (hence the terrain, research and base building updates). 

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18 hours ago, Baconthepig said:

I have issues with the games "Balance" currently BUT it is hard to really balance anything when they aren't done building the scale. I felt like the mineral extractor was too OP when they first released it. I figured it should require more soil/power or something to make it a better choice to explore but all those changes would do is slow the game down and make players dig a bigger hole.

You make a good point as in the new update I needed lithium so I had power at night. If I wasn't able to look for one and then mine (a lot) soil I would have gotten bored and stopped playing. To said it is OP to make copy's of stuff is naive at this early point of game development.

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Posted (edited)

If mineral extractor was to work only with 2 full big batteries and the maximum volume of power flowing in from power sources, that would make pople think twice about using them. 

Edited by Bushmills

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I am quite happy with the mineral extractor as it is. It takes 16 canisters of soil to make 1 litium or titanium, it gets boring to rely just on that. The current setup fits my playing style(s) really good.

First in a game its naturally to use the resources that is near my base, and going cave exploring is fun. And I also like to set up large soil mines in the nearest mountain. In my current game, I printed 1 battery from "legit" wreckage litium and 3 more from ME copies. Then i traveled to Arid to set up a main base there and build a mining crane truck to big time excavate the resources. I hadnt enough aluminium and couldnt find it with hours of exploring, so I decided to go back to Terran and print some. That process takes time too.

 

Usually I need so much materials for my base designs and garages that it gets a balance between searching for legit resources and mine, I just switch between one to the other when I get tired of one of the tasks. Perfect, SES team :)

Of course (as mentioned before, I dont remember where) the machines can be splitted up in more parts that needs to be found first. That will be fun too. But it dont destroys the game at all as I see it :)

It can be changed to need both researching more steps, finding wreckage parts, and legit raw materials to construct a mineral extractor to delay its introduction a bit more. But for me it just adds to the fun.

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Aaaw to late to edit. 8 canisters of soil per litium or titanium. I messed it up when I tinked about atteries that take 2 litium. To the mod who reads this, please change the 16 to 8, and delete this post :)

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maybe the mineral extractor could spit out 'impure' minerals. same conversion rate soil->mineral, but then you need to take 4-8 'impure' minerals into a refinery to get a single usable one. it doesn't take away the usefulness of the extractor, just slows it down a little, and adds 1 more module to need to research to make the whole process get rolling.

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Posted (edited)

Why people think the mineral extractor is too OP? 

Important Research cost , we could say even more is necessary but. Yeah. Just that. 

8 canisters= 1 rare resource
 

It's not a way to mass producing rare resources so... I not agree with that point of view. The first version was OP. ATM its a way of producing some resources when needed and also use soil when you have too much of it. 

Edited by Ferendris

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Id have to see how it plays, but my thematic vision for the mineral extractor is that it depends not on player selection, but on the type of soil captured (which would be a terrain 2.0 feature if ever) So a full load of terran green surface soil might be 3 compound, 3 resin, 2 organic, with a chance of malachite. A brown soil would have more resin, with chance of laterite instead. Deeper down, there would me ore with a chance for coal, and other planets would have increased chances of the rare ores.  Not sure if the rare stuff should function on a sort of accumulator at the extractor (e.g. each load of a certain soil contributes 10% towards a full lithium), or simply a chance based on the soil mixture captured.

Players would still have a degree of control over which soil they gathered, but there would be additional experimentation and exploration to find the soil that was best for each situation. This could be doubled-down on by making the exact ratios a little random with each new game, so that it isn't strictly wikiable.

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another thing that could slow the mineral extractor without making it impossible: build it using 2 titanium instead of 2 compound. there IS plenty of titanium laying around Terran in crash sites if you just look; i've gotten 10 in only 6 hours since starting my latest world. and i'm somewhat disappointed there's no reason to have it all

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1 hour ago, 101101110111 said:

another thing that could slow the mineral extractor without making it impossible: build it using 2 titanium instead of 2 compound. there IS plenty of titanium laying around Terran in crash sites if you just look; i've gotten 10 in only 6 hours since starting my latest world. and i'm somewhat disappointed there's no reason to have it all

or even better, have it require iron to build. that would certainly push it towards a later-game item, since you don't find iron on the home world; only worlds where you actually NEED the extractor due to lack of resin/compound veins. 

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43 minutes ago, 101101110111 said:

or even better, have it require iron to build. that would certainly push it towards a later-game item, since you don't find iron on the home world; only worlds where you actually NEED the extractor due to lack of resin/compound veins. 

I love this, excellent thinking!

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I do find mineral extractor being too powerful in its current state
8 canister for 1 lithium is so easy with a crane on a rover.
BUT don't remove it, just tweak it!

Here is my suggestions :

  • as someone said, the soil should be different from planet to planet.
    It shouldn't be possible to get lithium from Terran soil. (even rare materials shouldn't be extracted this way or at least not from the beginning)
    There is already enough lithium in wrecks on the Terran planet for example.
    => but I'll add the possibility to transport small wrecks to some kind of recyclers that generates little resources (a slot like the player tool or crane so little by little but of multiple materials)
    It will encourage players to go to another planet to get more lithium and even explore the planet to find wrecks.
    (as a side note, planets could have something that cannot be found the first time and need something from another planet => encouraging to leave the planet is good but why not also encourage to come back and have a second lecture of that planet)
  • at least double the amount needed. It should be a little extra instead of being the main resource production.
  • To me Trade Platform is a bit redundant and far less powerful at the moment as it is not a material creation, but a material conversion, and it costs more than what you receive. But you cannot nerf one without nerfing the other one. Otherwise you could create Malachite from one to get lithium from the other one and in the end face the same problem...
    => To this end, the Trade Platform should be "random"...
    You can get materials that you cannot extract from this planet but the amount should be limited and random.
    There should be a list of X resources you can exchange for a limited time (planet day/night cycle ? real time ? Number of resources change according to the planet and the day/night cycle ?).
    For example at the moment there are:
    - 2 resins
    - 1 lithium
    - 1 coal
    - 3 Hydrazine
    And for this limited period of time there will only be those 7 materials. You'll have to wait for the next period for new materials to exchange.
    We could even imagine that the resource required is also decided.
    You can see what resources are in the exchange list like for the 3D printer and it adjust the required materials to get it.
    Example: 2 resins require 4 compounds this time and the next time it might be 2 resins for 1 Malachite and 1 Laterite

I can understand that you want freedom but either the game gives you everything from the start for free (or so) and you use it or not as you want OR the game has some rules like it is at the moment. There is an extractor and it needs soil, so it's not free, there are rules so why not trying to improve it.

As suggested before, the game could have some kind of game sets (easy/medium/hard/custom).
There must be predefined modes you cannot change, this way every player playing the game mode will have the same rules can compare if they like too. ("I could create a base on that planet in less that X hours in HARD mode, can you beat that!"). A DEFAULT (you cannot change game rules) and a CUSTOM mode (you can change everything or more likely what devs have time to expose) could be enough to begin with. But the DEFAULT mode should be the challenging one otherwise no "competition" will be possible. 

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