SES_joe

"Research Update" - December 18th, 2017

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Bumbled the reply and now it's locked what I ment to say was: Research has gone from something new every object to 1/8th after an hour of waiting and yes that is stupidly stretched however the soil filter is great I am currently leveling a mountain to convert to lithium while I wait to unlock the large battery xp

Edited by FacadeKitsune
Dan you auto correct

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On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 3:37 AM, Pi_ said:

And Joe, while you're there, whisper in the artist's ear that magenta text on blue background is a no-no.

 

Fixed broken image link from original post on page 1...

9FtGyiX.jpg

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One thing I would like to ask... WHY. THE. F***. DO WE ONLY GET A GENERATOR AT THE START? At least give me some FRIGGIN' POWER CELLS OR SOMETHING IF POWER IS SO IMPORTANT NOW!!!!!! BRUH! (Sorry for my rant, you shouldn't listen to me. EVER.)

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On 1/7/2018 at 4:53 PM, FacadeKitsune said:

Bumbled the reply and now it's locked what I ment to say was: Research has gone from something new every object to 1/8th after an hour of waiting and yes that is stupidly stretched however the soil filter is great I am currently leveling a mountain to convert to lithium while I wait to unlock the large battery xp

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn!

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Hi, my research station is always taking all the energy i produce, even when there is nothing plugged in.

So for example i can't recharge the battery i just found in a cave (i suppose its because the research station has a higher priority)
20180109224432_1.thumb.jpg.ec4b690a185ea5f81c5dbf16f208bb49.jpg

As you can see at the center of this screenshot, energy is comming to research chamber but there is nothing inside...

Is this normal?

 

(sorry for my english)

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7 minutes ago, elicolh said:

Hi, my research station is always taking all the energy i produce, even when there is nothing plugged in.

So for example i can't recharge the battery i just found in a cave (i suppose its because the research station has a higher priority)
20180109224432_1.thumb.jpg.ec4b690a185ea5f81c5dbf16f208bb49.jpg

As you can see at the center of this screenshot, energy is comming to research chamber but there is nothing inside...

Is this normal?

 

(sorry for my english)

The research chambers currently and eating energy passively.  That's the issue.

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17 minutes ago, Wyvyrias said:

The research chambers currently and eating energy passively.  That's the issue.

Thanks but how am I suppose to do to recharge my batteries ? 

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If you produce energy in excess of what the research station uses, it will go to batteries, smelter, etc. Also, if you place an energy generator near or on what you want to power, it will get first priority in charging up the cells. Just have to max out your energy production. I will say, however, that the new updates provide much more wind power on Terran. Wind turbines used to be worthless there, but now you can get power most of the night with proper placement.

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1 minute ago, Truthseerguy said:

If you produce energy in excess of what the research station uses, it will go to batteries, smelter, etc. Also, if you place an energy generator near or on what you want to power, it will get first priority in charging up the cells. Just have to max out your energy production. I will say, however, that the new updates provide much more wind power on Terran. Wind turbines used to be worthless there, but now you can get power most of the night with proper placement.

Okay, Thanks a lot 

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Actually, across many many games now on Terran, I'm having quite the opposite experience. There's almost no wind at all on Terran, no matter where spawn. Generally I only take on spawns mostly flat open areas, sometimes with trees around, certainly not in a ravine or canyon or with anything else for that matter nearby that would even remotely act as an ostruction wind flow. I'm not even sure the game construct takes such factors into account at this point, so I really doubt one's spawn location has much affect on wind patterns surrounding the base, but who knows.

At this time I'm only using small wind turbine, but ive had lots of experience with them so far. Guess I've had up to 4-5 across a given base in hopes of generating "somewhat reliable" nighttime power but it's never worked well at all. It is also very frustrating, I agree, not having energy supplying batteries and other base modules in a reliable fashion. I do believe this is a major flaw in the design, and it's not acceptable overall to simply say "wait until you've exceeded peak power output, then you'll have enough excess to supply your things"  that's an overall terrible excuse! It can take what can seem like eternity to scrape together enough high-value research chests to unlock enough things, not to mention how many DAYS and NIGHTS it takes to run through those high value chests. In the beginning it's often better to run through several small-medium value chests, especially ones you can complete with small solar and maybe finish quickly with some supplemental organic/wind mix at night, so you're not feeling stuck "babysitting" your base because that certainly can be what the game leans toward now, making you a glorified research center power pusher and that's no good really. Sure, the research system is much, much better, but the implementation of the power use needs a lot of work and balancing. Of course it's the first release, that's to be understood, I'm not griping here, onky pointing out anyone who feels a need to rush to the defense of the power system really shouldn't feel that way. Not everything is going to be perfect and shiny straight out of the gates. The Devs know that, idk why some forum members don't get it, but that's not my problem so I'm not going to worry about it.

Back to the power issues, as I've said (I think) relying on just organic power is the definition of tedious. I play this game a lot, this won't stop me from playing, but it's something that should be addressed. The heavy reliance on organics up front is one of the many reasons I think the Inhibitor costs is way too much. Perhaps it should go back to being provided at the beginning of the game right after the basics are unlocked. Really, why not? it has its own balance built in, because there is an energy cost to use any tool mod, including the Inhibitor, after all. I just really don't see any downsides to it.

Back to the issue of wind, like I mentioned, I've only built and used the small ones so far in my games. I haven't broken down to buy the large ones yet, based off the pitiful performance of the smaller ones so far on Terran (have yet to visit any other planets). There's just no way I can justify building the larger ones right now, in fact I was wondering if there had been some secret nerf, as ridiculous as that sounds, to windflow on the surface of Terran? :P Now in caves? No problem, in fact storms still overpenetrate caves so badly, at times visibility is just awful and the sound roars in my ears. This brings me to something I keep forgetting to mention to the Dev team, have been for months.

On Xbox One, there are two things that RELIABLY cause frames and performance to PLUMMET and I mean fast. Neither of these things are new, none has really become any worse in my estimation, and I recognize these are integral parts of the game that aren't going to be removed (i.e. they aren't bugs, they're features, but they do cause serious performance issues for console at least, can't say with regards to PC). I hope someone will look hard at these phenomena and try to improve them, because for a fresh game they aren't too bad, but even after just a few hours of play they can slow everything to a crawl and I'm not talking about any "intended" effects either.

(1) gas/acid from surrounding Pumpkins

(2) storms

For Pumpkins, it's not until the "gas" (I don't want to argue whatever it is, let's just call it that for simplicity) is emitted that the problems arise, iirc. But there's just so much of it on screen (my best guess?) the console can't handle all the animation of the Pumpkins moving, the gas spreading, our Astroneer jumping, altering terrain, let's just admit it's a very busy scene going on, and now y'all are talking about making much more complex hostil flora that spit gas bombs and other stuff (why does it always have to be green gas anyway? I'd like to see something a bit more creative than always the same color, same type of projectile but that's to y'all of course, I think variety makes it more interesting at least have different colors for different types like blue gas for the lobbing bomb type or maybe a red gas idk, just a thought from when I watched the VLOG). You could cripple this for Xbox players if you can't improve performance when all these animations are going on, it already gets bad in caves as it is after a few hours. I'd also suggest limiting the number of hostile in a certain area? In some caves there can be 6 Pumpkins in a very small area, all spewing gas, it's just too much! Some caves, every single branch has 3 Pumkins in it to clear out. I'm not looking for some "easy mode" here, I grew up with Atari, back when there was no hand-holding and no Internet guides and videos. You figured everything out for yourself, and you didn't quit. It might take a week to beat some big boss, or figure out some really hard puzzle in Zelda (GameBoy by then) but you did it, and you didn't complain. I'm talking about performance issues, and tedium, not difficulty. For storms, performance drops way before I can see or hear it. The longer the game goes, the worse it is. When I start, I can swivel around my base in my hab freely, easily, quickly. As the game progresses, during a storm that swivel speed becomes slower and slower, until I can barely swing my view around to see which direction the storm will clear from. It's a painful experience to see each game file has essentially an expiration date, but one I don't know and can't really ascertain. I do know the game does crash, relaibly, at the 2 hr mark if no save has been performed (autosave or save on demand, please). I've found this to be true, over and over, game crash, last save exactly 2 hrs ago. Very frustrating to say the least. Anyway, storms obviously require a lot of resources in the game, but I only see more effects added (now there are black particles, I don't know why, they don't "add" anything to make a storm look more "intense" or scary, although I always appreciate the efforts of the team I really do!) Please just consider we all aren't going to be playing on high-end machines, and regular Xbox just isn't capable of running intense graphical stuff, so maybe try not to overdo effects with storms etc? I can't wait to see Terrain 2.0 but seriously worry it'll kill the experience for Xbox players. I hope I won't be limited to maybe 10 hrs or less per game? I know y'all can look at ways to improve performance, so all I'm trying to do here is report the issues that are ongoing with these two items because they do significantly impact performance and cause, at times, severe FPS drops on Xbox One. As always thanks for listening.

Back to the power issue, I think I've already mentioned this before about how it needs to be looked into and improved so I'll not beat a dead horse. One thing I think would help with some of these issues, if only temporarily, is to change the "destruct" option on the research module to a "PAUSE" button. Honestly I don't imagine many people need to destroy a research item, and possibly a few destroy it because they don't really understand what it is they're doing, or even why they're doing it, and maybe if they understood the game and the new system better they wouldn't have chosen to detroy an item in the first place. The research module is the first item we can craft, so if someone decides they put in something that is taking too long, it's relatively easy to build another one and start a different, smaller (Byte-sized! Lol) research project as an alternate. If we had a "PAUSE" button instead, which you'd change the labeling (and of course the coding for the function) this would free up all the base resource power at that moment to fill modules and batteries, basically anything in need of power if you've got an active power supply or can generate power in some manner (such as use of organic or coal generators). I think this would be a much more useful addition to the research module than a destruction feature and would also temporarily alleve power flow issues on base, I hope it could be considered. Thanks again! :D

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    Wind seems to be fairly random from both a "when" and "where" standpoint. At least on Terran anyhow. I don't have a lot of experience on other planets yet. The best luck I've had is to spread out the wind turbines, rather than group them all in one place. This helps to insure that there is a better chance of at least a few catching some wind at any given time.

    I don't really build anything but the small versions of the wind turbines and usually put two of them, along with two small batteries, on the medium storages I connect to most of the base platforms. I also put one small solar on the front node of each base platform as well. This usually supplies enough power to keep two research stations going, while charging any Medium Batteries I have connected during the day.

    Between the Batteries, both Medium and Small, and the various small Wind Turbines set up, two Research Stations are able to research at full capacity through the night the vast majority of the time. Granted this is at a sacrifice to storage space, but it's a compromise I don't mind too much. There's still 12 free spaces on each platform after the Small Turbines and Small Batteries have been added to the two Medium Storages.

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2 hours ago, Aevirok said:

    Wind seems to be fairly random from both a "when" and "where" standpoint. At least on Terran anyhow. I don't have a lot of experience on other planets yet. The best luck I've had is to spread out the wind turbines, rather than group them all in one place. This helps to insure that there is a better chance of at least a few catching some wind at any given time.

    I don't really build anything but the small versions of the wind turbines and usually put two of them, along with two small batteries, on the medium storages I connect to most of the base platforms. I also put one small solar on the front node of each base platform as well. This usually supplies enough power to keep two research stations going, while charging any Medium Batteries I have connected during the day.

    Between the Batteries, both Medium and Small, and the various small Wind Turbines set up, two Research Stations are able to research at full capacity through the night the vast majority of the time. Granted this is at a sacrifice to storage space, but it's a compromise I don't mind too much. There's still 12 free spaces on each platform after the Small Turbines and Small Batteries have been added to the two Medium Storages.

If you really want serious power, honestly, if you have a big base, try to find solar panel wreckage It gives you LOADS of power during the day and overclocks the research bay and then some. (In my most recent save, I spawned near one, but I dont have the truck yet, so I cant hook it up :[    )

Edited by Endermankid563

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On 1/9/2018 at 5:19 PM, Truthseerguy said:

If you produce energy in excess of what the research station uses, it will go to batteries, smelter, etc. Also, if you place an energy generator near or on what you want to power, it will get first priority in charging up the cells. Just have to max out your energy production. I will say, however, that the new updates provide much more wind power on Terran. Wind turbines used to be worthless there, but now you can get power most of the night with proper placement.

 

     But there are no folk instruments to sing sea shanties with.

 

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10 hours ago, Endermankid563 said:

(In my most recent save, I spawned near one, but I dont have the truck yet, so I cant hook it up :[    )

You can now hook those massive solar panels to base modules without needing a rover.

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14 hours ago, Mordred478 said:

 

     But there are no folk instruments to sing sea shanties with.

 

Eh, whatcha gonna do? Just gotta go acapella... "Now we are ready to sail for the horn, weigh hey! roll n go!..."

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I've heard the large solar arrays are really a pain because they won't stay in position (tbh I thought I'd read somewhere in the past that, after a few saves, they somewhat "cemented" their position until you dug them up again and re-aligned them, but I certainly could be mistaken about that). So much so that a few club members on Xbox One hav said they require repositioning every time they re-entered the game. Another said they use two winches to try and hold them in position. What a PITA. Does anyone have any data (numbers) on their power output? Just some guesstimate would be fine, a ballpark figure to compare say small solar to the bigger panel you craft at the printer, versus the large array? Also, several members of the club I help with would really like to know if there are any future plans for us to to make use of many of the other solar panel-bearing crash objects in the game, of which there are now several? I know the Devs themselves may not be able to answer this, at least not now, but I thought I'd post the question. I know I've been a bit frustrated myself, in some saves, when the large solar array hasn't been anywhere in sight, but the large circular crash with a huge array is (it wouldn't be a towable object, but it would be nice if it had a hookup point so we could charge our vehicles when passing by perhaps?), that's more of what I was wondering about because many of these other panels either don't appear that "mobile" (unless we get some metallurgy equipment like a blowtorch lol, don't think that's likely not anytime soon anyway) or they're relatively small in comparison to the large solar array so they likely wouldn't generate a ton of power but still might be worth it if they generate at least as much as the medium solar I guess it is that's crafted on the printer module (sorry, I get confused with the medium & large sizes, because sometimes we don't have a "large" item in the game yet, really looking forward to larger oxygen tanks!!!). 

I do pretty much as described above, placing numerous small wind turbines across my base in varied locations to improve the chances of getting wind flow. I start with small solar, and when I get enough Bytes (which I, too, hope the name can be changed to something more "suitable" and fitting the game in the near future) I upgrade to the larger solar panels as those do help a great deal during light to keep power cranking to the research modules and to other things as well.

I have more comments to add, but I have another committment atm so I shall return :P

 

Edited by Shadow Echo
Fix few typos and grammar

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15 hours ago, time_trial said:

You can now hook those massive solar panels to base modules without needing a rover.

It was too far to build, tho. It is close by, but not tooooooooooooooo close.

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OK, gotta let this out....

 

When I first found this game, it was inspirational.  Seriously, it had reach unlike I've not seen in years...

 

Then, well, the "company" grew, hired new developers.  And...  Well, lost the inspiration.

 

Really, it's gone.  This release is paramount to the lost reason for this game.  It's so tedious now it's barely worth playing.  I believe the drop in forums posts speaks loudly of this issue.  This game has GOT TO GET BACK TO IT'S ROOTS!  Or it's just another blip on the vast radar.

 

'nuff said.   30+ years in game reporting here.  I know my stuff....

Edited by Nargg

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Nargg is expressing here what a lot of people are feeling about this game. somehow, the early excitement for it's potential has dwindled, and we find ourselves facing a future where Astroneer could become more and more like every other game - that is, unoriginal and repetitive. i dearly hope this isn't how things are going to evolve, but i do fear it.

i think much of this comes from the expectation of early success. this game was so fun and different at the early stages that those who loved it really loved it, recommended it to friends, became involved, began to feel some level of 'ownership'. not surprising, as that was what the game developers were offering when they went for an early access model - to get a fan base and to make them part of the game's evolution. so if they have a lot of people on their case about how the game is moving away from it's roots, then that much is on them.

the problem with having thousands of fans at the early stages is that you end up with thousands of people who all see different kinds of potential for 'their' game. some see a vast space-borne mystery to be solved, others see an epic battle against alien forces for these worlds. some want the persistent demands of crafting and maintaining a society, others want continual exploration opportunities that keep giving the player new experiences. with all these opinions its unlikely any of them will be fully satisfied, more likely that they vast majority will be unhappy. you cant please all the people....

it's a real dilemma: players don't really want the game to stay the same, because that way lies stagnation and boredom, but as the game evolves it's certainly more likely than not going to move away from what any individual thinks of as what made the game great, or what they hoped for it to become. what can the devs do?

and then there's money: this game has to be a cash cow for the devs. they put a lot of time and effort into creating and evolving it, they need to see that effort rewarded, otherwise what's the point? but monetizing games can be a huge part of what can go wrong - i can see this game becoming heavily store-driven, with players making 'in-game purchases' for the good stuff and basic 'game purchase price' gameplay suffering greatly. i will probably leave at the point that happens. everyone has their red lines for this game, that one is mine.

but i am sympathetic, i know the devs deserve to get paid for the work they do. which is why i am prepared to pay again for ASTRONEER when it eventually becomes a fully fledged world. i have no illusions regarding what i am owed. i have had a hell of a good time with Astroneer as it stands, and being able to contribute in some small way via these forums has been a pleasure, not a chore. i've had my money's worth. i say, let the guys go forward now and build a really beautiful, smart, exciting, colourful, fun game with new devices, more varied worlds and base components, built in tasks and missions, challenges and rewards and a smartly woven backstory to discover. put it all in, and i'll pay for it again. or if i dont like what i think i'm being sold, i'll stick with my basic astroneer and keep my cash - but i think i probably will like it, enough to support a well-priced full release.

and just to finish, my opinion on the research update - works for me. admittedly i just skip the and pieces Ive never found a use for (filters?) and go straight for the big stuff, but surely that's the point? i can see this mechanism supporting a much more varied range of items for researching, which might lend themselves to a sort of play-style specific game, where your
Astroneer type (explorer? engineer? scientist? soldier? physician?) would pick different items to support their missions (build an awesome base? collect and reassemble bits of an old spacecraft? find the ruins of an ancient civilisation? terraform the world so it has a breathable atmosphere? explore the mysterious plant life and discover some kind of amazing secret?) so, as a mechanism for future potential, i endorse it. right now, i find i do all my research before i even attempt to step foot on another world.

still, onward and upward, eh?

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5 hours to research? yeah well 

Auf Wiedersehen

 

16 hours ago, Nargg said:

OK, gotta let this out....

 

When I first found this game, it was inspirational.  Seriously, it had reach unlike I've not seen in years...

 

Then, well, the "company" grew, hired new developers.  And...  Well, lost the inspiration.

 

Really, it's gone.  This release is paramount to the lost reason for this game.  It's so tedious now it's barely worth playing.  I believe the drop in forums posts speaks loudly of this issue.  This game has GOT TO GET BACK TO IT'S ROOTS!  Or it's just another blip on the vast radar.

 

'nuff said.   30+ years in game reporting here.  I know my stuff....

Couldn't have said it better.

 

This game just went from serious consideration to seeya in 5 minutes with 5 hour or longer research and everything else that just got hammered.

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Research technically became shorter on average though. With the previous RNG system, it could have been either 1h or 100h until you get everything. Now it's pretty much between 4h and 10h depending on how much effort you put into it.

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If your idea of playing is to mine sediment, convert it into lithium, feed lithium into the research chamber and you're done when there's nothing left to research, well then yes, the game is boring and way too short. Try a new game without building a mineral extractor and a trade platform. I'm doing that with my last game and it's probably the best game I've had in a long time. (And yes, I am aware that "best" varies from person to person.)

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23 hours ago, Nargg said:

When I first found this game, it was inspirational.  Seriously, it had reach unlike I've not seen in years...

This game has GOT TO GET BACK TO IT'S ROOTS!  Or it's just another blip on the vast radar.

I might have agreed with this, if it weren't for one thing... we all bought into the Early Access model.  So what you're referring to as "it's roots" was never going to end up being the finished product.

Probably you, like myself and a lot of people on this forum, have been with this game since the beginning (Dec 2016).  And I wish SES had gone with a patch/update mechanic which doesn't overwrite previous versions, so I could load up whichever version I want and play the game how is used to be.  But we knew what we were getting into, so 30+ years in game reporting should have prepared you for possibly major gameplay revisions.

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