Omegasys

A Brilliant fix to the infinite fuel trading problem.

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10 minutes ago, Martin said:

Only if you play like this.  As said many a time, the key issue is choice, what you are "demanding" is for another's choice to be removed.  I only ever use 1 condenser per base, the reason for this is it is a Base Rule.. you cannot argue an exploit if you're using 10 or 5 or 2.. only 1.  So to all intents, if 1 is exploitable, then it is an exploit.  Being able to build 10 isn't important.  Bases can be limited by rules.  There isn't a game in existence that allows unlimited bases.  1 condenser to test the issue.  As shown in the snowdrop post, 10 condensers is easy to setup and it makes the nerf totally pointless.  In fact it makes all possible nerfs pointless, if you can just build more of them.

Of all the things you posted, this makes the most sense and completely sums up my entire train of thought regarding this "nerf." It's not necessarily a nerf, but a time consumer. And I think when Hydrozene finally gets fully implemented, it will be great. but right now, it's not that great either way you look at it, and the time taken only extends the length it takes to create hydrozine, as the price-point does not really matter. 

The problem with hydrozene is that it's the only resource you can make out of thin air. Everything else has to either be traded for, mined, or created. That is the problem with the hydrozene "exploit" and that's really it.

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13 minutes ago, Martin said:

To pull this apart slightly, in the original "movies" Hydrazene was depicated as Ice Crystals, which were mined and passed via conveyor to the Condenser, which made fuel, to the shuttle.  It takes little leap of faith, that the current depiction of Hydrazene is still a crystal formation, that likely in some future patch, it'll be renamed to Ice again.

Only if you play like this.  As said many a time, the key issue is choice, what you are "demanding" is for another's choice to be removed.  I only ever use 1 condenser per base, the reason for this is it is a Base Rule.. you cannot argue an exploit if you're using 10 or 5 or 2.. only 1.  So to all intents, if 1 is exploitable, then it is an exploit.  Being able to build 10 isn't important.  Bases can be limited by rules.  There isn't a game in existence that allows unlimited bases.  1 condenser to test the issue.  As shown in the snowdrop post, 10 condensers is easy to setup and it makes the nerf totally pointless.  In fact it makes all possible nerfs pointless, if you can just build more of them.

Which brings us to this.  There is a simple resolution.  DON'T USE IT.  It is a simple choice, okay, I get it, by your and others continued posting that argument of "then don't use it" is a horrible argument... but it actually isn't.  It's the truth.  If you're too weak willed to not use an exploitable system.. that isn't my fault. Nor the fault of those who don't.  It's yours.  Why should our games be changed because you can't not use the exploit if it is exploitable?

This is only a multiplayer game in the form of a 4 player max coop.  It isn't an online mmo, it might become a more than 4 player coop, in which case, different rules can apply to such servers.  They don't need to apply to the entire game.  By saying you don't need to use an exploit, I am NOT saying don't play the game, or play someone else game.  Those are also your choices.  If someone asks you for 1 cup of water, they are not asking you for 2 or 3. So don't add extra statements where they don't exist.

And this whole issue, if it isn't apparent by now, is that people on one side are not making a suggestion, they're making a demand. 

I don't think that last part is an actual quote :P. I cannot even begin to fathom where you get the idea that we're making a demand for the change. My post was, and still is, A SUGGESTION. No amount words coming from between the lumps of fat on your rear can change that. It doesn't matter if it's a single payer game or an mmo. Your consistent "don't use it" argument is completely useless and weak. You could argue for ANY game that has ever had exploits, doesn't mean it doesn't need to be fixed. And tell me, were you upset when those devs removed it? Probably not, because you claim you don't use it. Big whoop, many others also didn't use them. Congratulations. Not doing anything about it isn't a solution, and as I said several times before, a change DOESN'T have to be implemented now. The game should work first obviously. The fact is that this is a problem, whether it affects you or not. So far the only thing you complained about is it taking twice as long to fuel your ship. Grow up. It's getting fueled regardless. Is it a hastle waiting longer? For sure, but you don't care to understand the meaning of the word "placeholder", so it would be pointless to mention that the extra time it takes to make fuel is a temporary change.

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How cheap it is is just in balancing later on.  If it needs 5 ice to make 1 fuel or if it need 50 or 10.. and so on.

Gathering materials is in someways grinding.. but I think I notice it more, when I'm standing in the same place.  If you move abit, mine something, move some more, it doesn't really feel like you're grinding.. if you have someone with you, maybe driving and you're using the crane and drill again.. it becomes fun and not grind.  So the key issue here for me, is how long you stand still in a given location.  And right now.. we all know where you stand still the longest.  Besides when you're sitting on the toilet.

The difference between a suggestion and a demand is in the words used.

When you make a statement, saying that something Is being exploited, that it Ruins the game, you're actually saying "change this or i quit".

If you say this thing could be exploited, this is how, maybe change it to this.  Is a suggestion.  The majority of the posters in this and other threads on this topic are saying change it or i quit.  They are demanding a change. 

Edited by Martin

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I'm not going to respond directly to your insults, keep it up and I won't respond at all to your posts.  Which might be a good idea in itself but it makes making suggestions on a public forum, somewhat pointless.  If you cannot keep your statements out of the personal toilet..

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The way I see it make the fuel expensive and needing machines to mine can set the game up for possibilities to start a mining operation (also automation), Then the whole trading system works (well in my mind at least). But this is something that should be miles away in the development stage, but can also be planned for now. 

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It's a suggestion that is out of hand. Do people really think the devs are unaware of the issue and need continuous posts about it? Did it ever occur to anyone that it's currently left in on purpose? Countless vehicles, especially trucks, like to just float off into deep space, glitch into a planet, or disappear entirely upon loading a save, or landing on an established planet. This can be used, with discretion, to replace what has been lost due to the many bugs still present.

 

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I'm not the one being demeaning towards people who have a different opinion. Maybe when you come with a more constructive attitude I will care to hear your responses to my posts, but until then, no thanks.

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2 minutes ago, th3Raven said:

It's a suggestion that is out of hand. Do people really think the devs are unaware of the issue and need continuous posts about it? Did it ever occur to anyone that it's currently left in on purpose? Countless vehicles, especially trucks, like to just float off into deep space, glitch into a planet, or disappear entirely upon loading a save, or landing on an established planet. This can be used, with discretion, to replace what has been lost due to the many bugs still present.

 

The amount of emotions this one idea has caused within the community is just astounding. I feel like this whole thing is a sociological study.

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1 minute ago, p1nkbr0 said:

The amount of emotions this one idea has caused within the community is just astounding. I feel like this whole thing is a sociological study.

Tell me about it. -_-

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5 minutes ago, p1nkbr0 said:

The amount of emotions this one idea has caused within the community is just astounding. I feel like this whole thing is a sociological study.

Ever played ARK? lol

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Just now, th3Raven said:

Ever played ARK? lol

If it's as frivilous and insipid as this, I can't say that I want to.

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The game itself has been the biggest virtual sociological experiment I've ever been a part of lol! That's why I'm loving Astroneer so much. Needed a hiatus, something a little more chill B|

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33 minutes ago, p1nkbr0 said:

If it's as frivilous and insipid as this, I can't say that I want to.

Try it. It's super fun, and pretty well polished now, but shows how things are with public dedicated servers. There's sever wide text chat and local voice. I understand why SES is against implementing these features in Astroneer, and I entirely support their reasoning, as it can get very inappropriate at times. Anyhow this is off topic again so I'll call it a night. Happy space travels to all!

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I feel they should leave it as it is ... for the moment.

Of course you have the choice but with a game in pre-alpha status this is a very good tool for those who had to start a new game (maybe because of a bug, who prevent them to continue their old save) and who want's to speed up some process to try things, where they need a well developed base. As testers for this game we are asked to try as much as possible, maybe very stupid things to find as many bugs as possible. Some (stupid) things we can only try with a very good base as a backup!

I agree this should not be a tool in the final released game!

Edited by nordish

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To reiterate on the "Don't use it" argument. It is a bad argument, because if the devs took it out, then you can't complain about that either. I feel that I may end up repeating this over and over again, but the devs are looking to the community for inspiration and direction, as well as their own expertise on game development. This game is a child of both the community and the devs. Even IF someone were demanding that the devs put something into the game, that is still a suggestion in the view of the devs. They choose what stays and what goes at the end of the day, but with consideration of what the community wants. Sure, demanding is urking and gives a bad impression, but that impression is on the demander, but the words can still be taken into consideration, and the demander may come off as a jerk. But again, they are suggesting in this thread.

But yes. The final product should not have the exploit, as it would counter other ways of playing in a negative way, and strives away from what they are going for. But it helps players do things quick to get more testing possibilities with going to other planets. Now... There is an interesting idea in the exploit. The idea that you can also become a trader in space. That would actually be a fairly interesting development; where you have the explorer side, and then the economic side. This too could be expanded even further to include other 'sides', 'jobs in space', if you will.

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Just came off the game having built two fuelling stations next to my trading post and saw this thread ... ah. Yes its an exploit, but I'm not a fan of trading my uber rare hard earned mats. There needs to be a balance. Refine the fuel into a solid or something along those lines that adds effort before trading is my 2 cents. 

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I really like this idea because it gives more utility to fuel while also balancing/eliminating the problem.  It's a good move toward a solution regarding this concern!

I'm a little perplexed why people are so upset about this though.  What's wrong with making tons of fuel and trading it?  Maybe this is the true reason we are sent into the void.  Making complexes that refine the energy given by the sun and wind and shipping them to our overlords.  If you are having fun doing that then what's the problem?  If you think it isn't fun and continue to do it then that's kinda silly.  I personally like exploring so it doesn't completely matter to me.  I also understand the need to change and balance things.  

Even though I don't enjoy doing it myself, I think the idea of someone being a fuel baron is kinda cool.

 

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Many replies in this post are simply ignoring the fact that you can't 'exploit' anything in a game that is in a pre-alpha state.

Since everything provided is for test purposes, and all machines are provided for testing without pre-requisites, and the end-use by what is effectively 'game-testers', there is no reason to use words like 'exploit', 'unbalanced/balanced', 'underpowered/overpowered'  or 'nerf/buff' at all.

As Martin and others stated, it would just be adding tedium to put timers on machine uses or unnecessary pre-requisites on anything or limiting players from doing whatever they want.. because this is not the time to..  That comes at a later stage of development.

So here it is. It's pre-alpha. Relax.

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