Omegasys

A Brilliant fix to the infinite fuel trading problem.

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3 hours ago, Martin said:

It isn't a game yet.  It's a bunch of mechanics that work together.  Most of the game probably hasn't even been conceived yet.

??☝

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I like the idea of fueling the trading platform. I also like not allowing to trade fuel itself, or only with a very low yield, e.g. 1 common resource for 8 fuel canisters.

But I don't like it to have that right now, because balancing should not be the current focus of the game. Here's my reasoning: We are in early access and we are trying to help the developers to iron out bugs. In order to do so, we need to provide as much information as possible, e.g. for reproducing a found issue. This often means restarting and recreating a scenario to verify. Unlike the developers, we do not have the ability to spawn resources or items at will. We have to do it through "normal" gameplay. The condenser provides for a relatively easy source of resources and thus can be seen as a debugging tool.

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Here's the deal with me(and probably a lot of others).

I don't use the fuel/trading combo to load up on materials -more power to you if that's your playstyle. In reality, materials are not hard to acquire on their own. End of story.

But, when I do need to eventually fuel up my spacecraft or when I have a stockpile of a material type and then find myself quickly needing a few units of something else, I fricking better be able to fuel up or trade in a reasonable manner. AKA the platforms better maintain a sufficient ROI.

If people moan and complain (because we all know the squeaky wheel gets the oil first) about making adjustments to how the fuel / trading platforms work and that changes my personal gameplay into what you think is how I should be playing Astroneer; I and like-minded others are gonna get pissed off. Because here I am playing what the Devs give to me and here others are trying to change what the Devs create because, reasons.

One of the best things about Sandbox games or really any game, in general, is being able to approach and consume the content in your own preferred style of gameplay. Not 'rails', METAs or popular vote.

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Personally I do not enjoy mining forever to get a few more resources that are further and further away. So I like the condenser/trader mechanic. 

I don't like standing around twice as long now. What kind of fix for a non-problem was that?

To those that think it is OP, it is really simple: Don't use it! And don't come here whining about it and ruining the gameplay of those that do want to. 

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I think it is important that the devs cater to every playstyle they can imagine and I think we should really focus on the current state of the game. Right now the player has effectively infinite access to any resource just by sitting in their base and trading hydrazine created from nothing but power. I think a major question to ask here is this: Did the devs intend for you to be able to "beat the game" from your base?

I mean it sounds kind of wild, to let the player just get infinite resources chilling there when others are risking their lives on incredible expeditions to get the very same resources, but at the same time this is a crazy space game where you do crazy space stuff with crazy space tech, so I think that it should be a viable playstyle so long as the player works hard, and is knowledgeable enough, to set up the foundation required for such a playstyle.

Basically what I'm getting at is that the player should be able to trade hydrazine for other resources like it can now, but players should have to work harder in order to benefit so vastly from the trade station. Powering up a station is incredibly easy and is not demanding from the player. I feel as though the fuel condenser should require quite a bit more power for every run. I also really like the idea of having to fuel the trade station because it is quite mysterious how it manages to leave the planet without using any resources.

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Honestly guys.... you're all arguing in a big circle here. Now the discussion is in the very same spot it was like literally days ago.

Quote

But I think the way the fuel condenser works right now is just a placeholder.

Only time will tell what the devs have planned for it, so please for the sake of world peace, don't smash your heads over fuel.

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9 hours ago, Martin said:

I'm upset.. because I'm now waiting twice as long to refuel, because people want a challenge in an Ea. Instead of playing the game, they want to organise it for everyone else.

Have you noticed those purple spiky things in caves? Those are Hidrazine veins, they are pretty common, I've found them even on the surface. That's supposed to be the primary way to get fuel and most people are not even touching them, a.k.a. testing, because, why bother? You'd rather spend more time doing nothing while the condenser does all the job than actually spend more time going into caves and mining for resources, that's where you find bugs, not sitting at your base.

I'm with @Omegasys, I like his idea, we need to drop the milk derived products.

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5 minutes ago, Funkeneer said:

Have you noticed those purple spiky things in caves? Those are Hidrazine veins, they are pretty common, I've found them even on the surface. That's supposed to be the primary way to get fuel and most people are not even touching them, a.k.a. testing, because, why bother? You'd rather spend more time doing nothing while the condenser does all the job than actually spend more time going into caves and mining for resources, that's where you find bugs, not sitting at your base.

I'm with @Omegasys, I like his idea, we need to drop the milk derived products.

Hydrazine crystals are my main recourse for the fuel.  But that's entirely besides the point.  As for why bother.. why bother getting up in the morning if you're going to go back to sleep at night?  Might as well just stay in bed.  Anymore meaningless comments?

Perhaps read the thread instead of picking on posts and making the wrong conclusions. I suspect on purpose.

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Don't bother replying to Martin and Slywin they both were arguing on another thread and are extremely close minded to anything. The real issue is with the condenser being able to transform Power --> Ressource. The whole thing should simply be fixed with transforming an Ingredient+Power --> Fuel instead of simply power. Or use the idea of OP from this thread which works just as well. Now you may say that ''no no then it becomes harder to get fuel or other ressources'' well actually it simply will push u more towards exploration instead of being self sufficient. Any game mechanics that allows u to stay at ur base and get ALL RESSOURCES of the game is breaking the whole goal of exploration which is why it became such a hot topic lately. I think to make everyone happy they could easily release their developper mode and call it creative or sandbox and let the exploration mode. This could allow us to test and also live the exploration experience.

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35 minutes ago, Snafu said:

Honestly guys.... you're all arguing in a big circle here. Now the discussion is in the very same spot it was like literally days ago.

Only time will tell what the devs have planned for it, so please for the sake of world peace, don't smash your heads over fuel.

You're the one who is arguing in circles.   We made our point and now you're trying to turn it around on us? You said Nerf Fuel.. we said, why? It isn't needed, you say we're arguing in circles.. You've lost your argument.  Now you're clutching at straws.

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2 hours ago, netram said:

I think it is important that the devs cater to every playstyle they can imagine and I think we should really focus on the current state of the game. Right now the player has effectively infinite access to any resource just by sitting in their base and trading hydrazine created from nothing but power. I think a major question to ask here is this: Did the devs intend for you to be able to "beat the game" from your base?

I mean it sounds kind of wild, to let the player just get infinite resources chilling there when others are risking their lives on incredible expeditions to get the very same resources, but at the same time this is a crazy space game where you do crazy space stuff with crazy space tech, so I think that it should be a viable playstyle so long as the player works hard, and is knowledgeable enough, to set up the foundation required for such a playstyle.

Basically what I'm getting at is that the player should be able to trade hydrazine for other resources like it can now, but players should have to work harder in order to benefit so vastly from the trade station. Powering up a station is incredibly easy and is not demanding from the player. I feel as though the fuel condenser should require quite a bit more power for every run. I also really like the idea of having to fuel the trade station because it is quite mysterious how it manages to leave the planet without using any resources.

You can make a billion units of everything, you haven't beaten the game.  It's not even made yet.  Balance the game after the content is out, not while people are testing it to see if the design works.

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6 minutes ago, Freaky said:

Don't bother replying to Martin and Slywin they both were arguing on another thread and are extremely close minded to anything. The real issue is with the condenser being able to transform Power --> Ressource. The whole thing should simply be fixed with transforming an Ingredient+Power --> Fuel instead of simply power. Or use the idea of OP from this thread which works just as well. Now you may say that ''no no then it becomes harder to get fuel or other ressources'' well actually it simply will push u more towards exploration instead of being self sufficient. Any game mechanics that allows u to stay at ur base and get ALL RESSOURCES of the game is breaking the whole goal of exploration which is why it became such a hot topic lately. I think to make everyone happy they could easily release their developper mode and call it creative or sandbox and let the exploration mode. This could allow us to test and also live the exploration experience.

You're incapable of reason, so you result to insult? I am not close minded, I am in agreement with the argument for changing the process, I just don't see the point in doing it now when it really doesn't matter, you are not playing a game, it hasn't been finished yet, what part of that can't you get through your head?

The condenser needs to be found in research.  It needs to be activated.  Both are time consuming and therefore not free resources.  If you want to stand in your base, that's your business.  I don't want to be standing in front of the condenser making fuel for my ship for twice as long because you think everyone else is exploiting the game. 

Edited by Martin

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6 minutes ago, Martin said:

You're the one who is arguing in circles.   We made our point and now you're trying to turn it around on us? You said Nerf Fuel.. we said, why? It isn't needed, you say we're arguing in circles.. You've lost your argument.  Now you're clutching at straws.

WOW. The jumps to conclusions you make are insane at best. No one has lost anything. You've made your point, we've made ours. Seriously, humble yourself. The only straw grasping going on here is you trying to agitate other players.  

We all want what's best for the game, but how and what we want that is different. Why can't you understand and respect that?

In regards to the original thread, I'm not saying they should implement changes now, as I agree making the game work as well as possible should take priority, but when they do come to the issue, this is a suggestion on how to fix it.

Edited by Omegasys

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2 minutes ago, Martin said:

You're incapable of reason, so you result to insult? I am not close minded, I am in agreement with the argument for changing the process, I just don't see the point in doing it now when it really doesn't matter, you are not playing a game, it hasn't been finished yet, what part of that can't you get through your head?

OH I am, you're just completely in denial with any suggestion people make. You do realize the game is out to the public and is here for us to give feedback, if they don't make these changes now they will affect the entire game. If they wait til the release to make them it defeats the whole purpose of us to give feedback at all and for the game to be in early access. Balance changes play a huge part of the release and they should balance things out, fix bugs before releasing new content. This has always been like that in every EA game and always worked great.

Edited by Freaky

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2 minutes ago, Omegasys said:

WOW. The jumps to conclusions you make are insane at best. No one has lost anything. You've made your point, we've made ours. Seriously, humble yourself. The only straw grasping going on here is you trying to agitate other players.  

We all want what's best for the game, but how and what we want that is different. Why can't you understand and respect that?

In regards to the original thread, I'm not saying they should implement changes now, as I agree making the game work as well as possible should take priority, but when they do come to the issue, this is a suggestion on how to fix it.

Oh shut up. You made your statement we made ours now you're trying to say we're the ones arguing when you started it.

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Just now, Martin said:

Oh shut up. You made your statement we made ours now you're trying to say we're the ones arguing when you started it.

What?! The only thing I started was this thread! In fact I actually tried to remove argument from the post, if you read any of my early replies. Now you're just flinging dung around. Calm down.

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Honestly, I used the fuel for trading, because I didn't feel like running back down into the cave to get enough materials for 1 copper though I could have easily grabbed a research pod off a tree and taken the titanium out of it and traded that for the 100th time.

Question is how does it actually hurt your game play, because I chose to use it? At the end of the day it should be each players choice to pick which way they want to go.

Also in a space faring universe wouldn't fuel always have a value? I mean if we would make it out of condensed air I am sure it would be pretty cheap, but it would still have value.

Either way fuel should still keep a value. I think 1:2 common, 2:1 uncommon, and 3|4:1 rare would still be fine.

Just my 2 cents.

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7 minutes ago, Freaky said:

OH I am, you're just completely in denial with any suggestion people make. You do realize the game is out to the public and is here for us to give feedback, if they don't make these changes now they will affect the entire game. If they wait til the release to make them it defeats the whole purpose of us to give feedback at all and for the game to be in early access. Balance changes play a huge part of the release and they should balance things out, fix bugs before releasing new content. This has always been like that in every EA game and always worked great.

feedback? you're making demands.  Demands that are doubling everyone elses ability to give feedback.  Get it? There's no argument over if it needs changed, the issue is with when.  Why make balance changes now? What is the point of adding challenge now? You can research a dozen item, coop is broken, there's misc problems with vehicles etc and you want things balanced? Why?

Oh right, because you think you bought a game?

Edited by Martin

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5 minutes ago, Martin said:

feedback? you're making demands.  Demands that are doubling everyone elses ability to give feedback.  Get it? There's no argument over if it needs changed, the issue is with when.  Why make balance changes now? What is the point of adding challenge now? You can research a dozen item, coop is broken, there's misc problems with vehicles etc and you want things balanced? Why?

Its feedback, not a demand. Clearly you're missing the entire picture. Balance changes now because THIS WILL ALLOW US TO TEST THE GAME WHEN ITS ACTUALLY BALANCED. Lmfao. Why test a product when in the end everything will be different. Granted they have a priority list and bugs are at first but before releasing new content they need to make sure the game is balanced. I put in caps my point. Read it and stop arguing with everybody on every thread about fuel. They need to make sure that the items they release don't completely break the entire economy of the game and core idea of exploring. If right at the beginning ur in a god mode then what exactly are u testing. Its not just about testing the ''mechanics''. Theres more to it.

Edited by Freaky

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1 minute ago, Martin said:

feedback? you're making demands.  Demands that are doubling everyone elses ability to give feedback.  Get it? There's no argument over if it needs changed, the issue is with when.  Why make balance changes now? What is the point of adding challenge now? You can research a dozen item, coop is broken, there's misc problems with vehicles etc and you want things balanced? Why?

We're on the same side here. This thread isn't about when, only how. I don't care that the fuel trading is in right now, just that it shouldn't be when the game fully releases. That's it.

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9 minutes ago, Dilinaer said:

Honestly, I used the fuel for trading, because I didn't feel like running back down into the cave to get enough materials for 1 copper though I could have easily grabbed a research pod off a tree and taken the titanium out of it and traded that for the 100th time.

Question is how does it actually hurt your game play, because I chose to use it? At the end of the day it should be each players choice to pick which way they want to go.

Also in a space faring universe wouldn't fuel always have a value? I mean if we would make it out of condensed air I am sure it would be pretty cheap, but it would still have value.

Either way fuel should still keep a value. I think 1:2 common, 2:1 uncommon, and 3|4:1 rare would still be fine.

Just my 2 cents.

Man I'm not really reading all this other stuff  because it seems kind of childish, but the reason why people feel it should be taken out of the game is because they don't want the ability to "cheat" (by not having to go back into that cave to get 1 more copper) to be so accessible. Some may see this as convenience, others may see it as giving you too much power thus removing the incentive to slowly progress and discover new areas which ultimately brings down gameplay value.

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On 12/23/2016 at 0:01 PM, netram said:

Man I'm not really reading all this other stuff  because it seems kind of childish, but the reason why people feel it should be taken out of the game is because they don't want the ability to "cheat" (by not having to go back into that cave to get 1 more copper) to be so accessible. Some may see this as convenience, others may see it as giving you too much power thus removing the incentive to slowly progress and discover new areas which ultimately brings down gameplay value.

Bingo. ^^^ The "It's a choice" argument is flimsy at best, because the game isn't supposed to be easy when it comes out. Doesn't matter if it's a choice, it's not supposed to be one. You're supposed to play the game the way the game devs intended first, see how it goes, and if you don't like it, try something different, or mod. That's how it is in most games today, but you don't see anyone complaining about that.

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I'm on board with the original idea! As it stands, the trading post does not match the other structures simply because it does not have a power cost. Maybe I would feel differently if the trading post required power to send your little drone off. I think using hydrazine to power the trading post pushes that structure into a middle game stage, which is very interesting. It makes me wonder what other sorts of things could be created when you require other crafted items to operate the next stage of your base. That sort of thinking lends itself to some nice development.

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