blorgon

[Google Docs] Feature Suggestions Document

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 I really love your ideas on automation and dedicated mining areas. These ideas are what I would see as somewhat essential, automation could add so much potential and creativity to the game that I can only hope is to come. Resources specific to biomes is also a great idea. I love how that'd force the player to explore and search for what they need, instead of running from their habitat and finding most essential resources.

All in all I think that the list of suggestions are really well put together and can only open more opportunity for the game.

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4 minutes ago, Embrace平 said:

 I really love your ideas on automation and dedicated mining areas. These ideas are what I would see as somewhat essential, automation could add so much potential and creativity to the game that I can only hope is to come. Resources specific to biomes is also a great idea. I love how that'd force the player to explore and search for what they need, instead of running from their habitat and finding most essential resources.

All in all I think that the list of suggestions are really well put together and can only open more opportunity for the game.

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback.

Automation is definitely at the top of my list. I'd really love to be able to "program" bots to take care of some of the more trivial tasks. Obviously it doesn't need to be as hardcore as games like Colobot where players literally write code themselves, nor does it even need to be drag-and-drop style programming. I'm thinking more of highly abstracted "software packages" you can just add to a bot and it will know what to do.

I also do really want the game to not be necessarily more difficult, but at least be more challenging in terms of resource gathering. Right now, you can fully upgrade a base in a very short amount of time, 3 hours or less. I think it should take closer to 15-20. Some of that playtime will come from having additional content, and some of it will come from making it more difficult to find, extract, and transport resources and utilize them.

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I support all of the request except the rarity of some things.Some ores are very difficult to find and would be horrible if it were harder to find it. I also recommend adding something about the rarity of fallen shuttles or ships. Hopefuly this helps.

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2 minutes ago, PyroCryo said:

I support all of the request except the rarity of some things.Some ores are very difficult to find and would be horrible if it were harder to find it. I also recommend adding something about the rarity of fallen shuttles or ships. Hopefuly this helps.

Good point on the rarity of crash sites. Crash sites should be a LOT rarer, but with more researchable items to be had when they are found. I agree that some of the more difficult ores to find (coal, hematite, astronium) are probably good where they are right now in terms of rarity.

When we get oceans, it'd be awesome to be able to harvest lithium from brines and clays, but for now, I'd like to be able to find lithium in crash sites more often, and in general, more salvageable material from crash sites.

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Just now, Dralan1912 said:

What about adding some recyclable items, so we can be more environmentally friendly : )

Haha. What did you have in mind? I was actually thinking it'd be cool to drag crashed spaceships back to base and strip them for parts and metal.

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32 minutes ago, blorgon said:

Haha. What did you have in mind? I was actually thinking it'd be cool to drag crashed spaceships back to base and strip them for parts and metal.

Yes! Maybe we can also recycle the base part (as a way to edit the base)

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Give that man a cookie. 

I was going to do something like this, but I saw your post and, holy s**t, you wrote every idea I had and much more. 

But I would add another thing, changing the fuel mechanics. It does'nt make sense that if you dig Hydrazine, that is a mineral you get an efficient and pure fuel. I would change it by making the Hydrazine an ore, and then refine it with the Fuel Condenser, because it does'nt have sense either to produce fuel from nothing with the Fuel Condenser.

Great job blorgon.

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9 minutes ago, Henek said:

Give that man a cookie. 

I was going to do something like this, but I saw your post and, holy s**t, you wrote every idea I had and much more. 

But I would add another thing, changing the fuel mechanics. It does'nt make sense that if you dig Hydrazine, that is a mineral you get an efficient and pure fuel. I would change it by making the Hydrazine an ore, and then refine it with the Fuel Condenser, because it does'nt have sense either to produce fuel from nothing with the Fuel Condenser.

Great job blorgon.

To be honest, I think hydrazine shouldn't be in the game. There isn't really a real-world equivalent (hydrazine is a real thing, but it's produced in labs for rocket fuels and other things, and is highly volatile). What I mean is that it shouldn't be a mineral we can mine directly from the planet's surface. I vastly prefer we have a system where we mine ice and use a machine to separate out the hydrogen from the oxygen to make liquid hydrogen for rocket fuel. That to me makes way more sense thematically than a magical mineral that you can mine from the ground and put directly into your fuel tank. Obviously some liberties would need to be taken, as liquid hydrogen is extremely difficult to handle, but it's much more plausible to me as a rocket fuel production process.

An alternative would be using liquid methane as a fuel source for the shuttle and spaceship. This would actually be even more plausible as liquid methane is much easier to handle, store, is denser than liquid hydrogen, et cetera. It's actually a prime candidate for fuel production on Mars using ISRUs (in-situ resource utilization). To that effect, an ISRU would make a lot more sense than a "fuel condenser".

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I liked the ideas. Specially that one of biome specific resourses.

That could make an easy way to get what we need. We just have to travel.

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1 minute ago, blorgon said:

To be honest, I think hydrazine shouldn't be in the game. There isn't really a real-world equivalent (hydrazine is a real thing, but it's produced in labs for rocket fuels and other things, and is highly volatile). What I mean is that it shouldn't be a mineral we can mine directly from the planet's surface. I vastly prefer we have a system where we mine ice and use a machine to separate out the hydrogen from the oxygen to make liquid hydrogen for rocket fuel. That to me makes way more sense thematically than a magical mineral that you can mine from the ground and put directly into your fuel tank. Obviously some liberties would need to be taken, as liquid hydrogen is extremely difficult to handle, but it's much more plausible to me as a rocket fuel production process.

An alternative would be using liquid methane as a fuel source for the shuttle and spaceship. This would actually be even more plausible as liquid methane is much easier to handle, store, is denser than liquid hydrogen, et cetera. It's actually a prime candidate for fuel production on Mars using ISRUs (in-situ resource utilization). To that effect, an ISRU would make a lot more sense than a "fuel condenser".

I really really really love were you're going with this. Not only does it make sense to remove hydrazine as a directly mine-able mineral, but it puts forth a much more indepth process and adds a little more to the game. The simple yet almost complex process which adds more realism and possibly more playtime. Honestly excited to see what the developers think of this thread because it's rare to see actual quality contributions.

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11 minutes ago, Embrace平 said:

I really really really love were you're going with this. Not only does it make sense to remove hydrazine as a directly mine-able mineral, but it puts forth a much more indepth process and adds a little more to the game. The simple yet almost complex process which adds more realism and possibly more playtime. Honestly excited to see what the developers think of this thread because it's rare to see actual quality contributions.

I'm actually working on a more detailed description in the document right now. Methane production details can be read about here, but the basic reaction is this:

CO2 + 4 H2 → CH4 + 2 H2O + energy

So what I'm thinking is we can use the CO2 our Astroneers are naturally producing through respiration, and hydrogen we separate from oxygen using mined ice to produce the liquid methane (CH4). The byproducts are water and energy, which, well, is pretty obviously awesome. We could then use the water and energy separately for powering the base and watering plants in a greenhouse, or use the energy to further break down the water into hydrogen and oxygen, and cycle the hydrogen back into the methane production (the 4 H2) and use the oxygen for breathing or as oxidizer for the fuel. This would both give players the option of how they want to use their resources, which would add a strategic decision for players, and also reduce the monotony of single-use resources.

Edited by blorgon

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Bumping because I've added a dedicated Rocket Fuel section in the document. Check it out and let me know what you think!

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2 hours ago, Embrace平 said:

Honestly excited to see what the developers think of this thread because it's rare to see actual quality contributions.

You and me both.

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I love and appreciate the dedication you put into creating this document. I love all of the ideas and hope the developers use this as a roadmap, more than just a wishlist!

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5 minutes ago, chaosrock said:

I love and appreciate the dedication you put into creating this document. I love all of the ideas and hope the developers use this as a roadmap, more than just a wishlist!

Me too. I'm honestly not sure how much of this subforum the devs read right now though. They're probably mostly busy with stabilization, and to be honest there's quite a lot of clutter. I'd be super stoked if they used some of my ideas.

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I would suggest adding seasons to the list. On the terran planet, having the four typical seasons would be cool. Storms more often in winter and spring, long days in summer (for solar power), short days in winter, and plants harvested in the fall might give 2x the output.

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14 minutes ago, chaosrock said:

I would suggest adding seasons to the list. On the terran planet, having the four typical seasons would be cool. Storms more often in winter and spring, long days in summer (for solar power), short days in winter, and plants harvested in the fall might give 2x the output.

That's actually a great idea. Would be interesting given that the Terran year is pretty short.

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Hello, I had read the discussion about the rocket fuel. The real life rocket use SRB (Solid Rocket Booster) and LRB (Liquid Rocket Booster). The SRB use several chemical compounds (like RDX and HMX) and they are difficult to create. Instead the LRB  use hydrogen and oxygen that are really easy to create, you need only water and an hydrolysis separator. Another thing that I suppose that is important is a space station to move through the solar system (and the galaxy in the future) where your space ship will be recharged of fuel (if you had send there before).

 

P.S. sorry for my english

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7 hours ago, blorgon said:

I'm actually working on a more detailed description in the document right now. Methane production details can be read about here, but the basic reaction is this:

CO2 + 4 H2 → CH4 + 2 H2O + energy

So what I'm thinking is we can use the CO2 our Astroneers are naturally producing through respiration, and hydrogen we separate from oxygen using mined ice to produce the liquid methane (CH4). The byproducts are water and energy, which, well, is pretty obviously awesome. We could then use the water and energy separately for powering the base and watering plants in a greenhouse, or use the energy to further break down the water into hydrogen and oxygen, and cycle the hydrogen back into the methane production (the 4 H2) and use the oxygen for breathing or as oxidizer for the fuel. This would both give players the option of how they want to use their resources, which would add a strategic decision for players, and also reduce the monotony of single-use resources.

The COcan be obtaine by burning coal, because if we want to use the methane as rocket fuel, we will need a lot of it.

Edited by Henek

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Hehe second try

I have new ideas!

  • Malachite: They should change the color of it, the Malachite is'nt yellow, is a beautiful green color.
  • Latherite: True, it contains Aluminum, but it is'nt a mineral like is shown in the game and it's not used to get aluminum, instead they should put      Bauxite, the main Aluminum ore that is used to get aluminum.
  • Titanium: It doesnt grow from the ground, they should implement the Ilmenite, the titanium ore, and melt it to obtain titanium.
  • Lithium: Again, it does'nt grow from the ground, it is'nt a common way of extracting lithium, but there are some lithium ores, I think that the most  suitable one is the Zinnwaldite.
  • And adding many more materials, like Silicate for the solar panels, Gold for electronic devises, 
  • Maybe adding petroleum and refine it to obtain fuel that can be used for rockets, and the way of obtained is by some drill. Make it in a contained space where you cant mess with it, because if it's in a contained space they would'nt have to mess with the fluid mechanics, because you dont see it, the only thing of petroleum that you could see is the tank full of it.

 

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The discussion about Hydrazine and other fuels is mute because it just covers a tiny aspect of the whole "rocket fuel" issue in real life.

Being an aerospace engineer myself I'd like to give a little insight into the issue, it's not necessary for my opinion though. ;)

Spoiler

Everbody thinks about methane + oxygen because it is the way SpaceX does it. But nobody asks why they do it like that, and why nobody else has done it in this scale until now.
Everybody talks about the "simple" sabatier reaction but there is only ONE reason for it: MARS.

According to Elon Musk everthing SpaceX does is to accomplish their true goal: Getting humans to MARS.
Mars atmosphere mainly consists of CO2 which just so happens to be needed in large quantities for the sabatier reaction:

methane spacex mars

Picture Source

The reason why SpaceX is developing their engines for a methane + liquid oxygen fuel mix has only to do with what would be possible to manufacture in large quantities on Mars. It is the "best" fuel for the mission.

This has nothing to do with what would be the most powerful rocket fuel. Looking at current technology and ignoring "exotic" rocket fuel combinations (e.g. plutonium, nuclear bombs, etc...) Liquid hydrogene (LH2) + liquid oxygen (LOX) is considered of being the "best" option for launches from earth. Earth has lots of water, therefore hydrogene and oxygene are readily available. Liquefication and the corresponding rocket engine on the other hand has some serious technical requirements. Using the high specific impulse (read: thrust per kg of fuel) it is possible to use smaller rockets for a given cargo load than using "simpler" rocket fuels. That is why most of the heavy lift rockets on earth use LH2 + LOX as their fuel, because it is the most economical way and increases the payload of the rocket...and because we are now able to manufacture rocket engines that can deal with the problems of the fuel mix (e.g. the very low temperatures)

Then why was hydrazine used for long periods of time? Simplicity!
Hydrazine (depending on the type used) does not need an oxidator and is therefore clasified as a "monofuel". This means that you don't need a spark or some source of heat for reignition in space. As long as the combustion chamber was made from a specific material (platinum, etc.) Hydrazine would self "ignite" (better: decompose) as soon as the fuel is released. This means electrical equipment that needs to survive several days (Apollo, ...) in space and therefore less critical equipment that can go wrong.

Personally I like it that the fuel is also minable from crystals. As far as we know it might even by Hydrazine, we are on an unknown planet after all. Looking at the fuel condenser we might even be on a planet with a Hydrazine atmosphere! :D

I'm totally on board with having a more complex fuel source (i.e. fuel + oxidator) that is needed for the bigger rockets and shuttles though. Would be great to help scale end game gameplay.

Edited by mux951

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Under automation there should also be additions of both a conveyor system and a railway. This seems to be on the devs minds given this Twitter post but I want to give my two cents:

Conveyor System

The conveyor system would be for local transportation around the base. Eventually, the base starts to get really big and you need to drag around storage modules in order to transport more than the backpack can carry. The conveyor system would be a system of pipes connecting the various parts of the base. These pipes would pump platform outputs to whatever they are connected to as inputs. That, or there would be carts along the conveyor which have a 2x inventory slots which transfer items to and fro.

Example: The pipe connecting the smelter and printer would transport any smelted metals over to the printer to be used to craft new items.

Railway

The railway is a longer transportation used to connect bases together or a base to a mine system. The railway is composed of track, a train and a cargo wagon. The train would have two 2x inventory slots: allowing a seat for the player and a power provider. The cargo wagons would have 4 2x inventory slots to place research pods, storage, batteries, solar panels, etc. The railway could span long distances and provide fast transportation for lots of items: great for moving items from a mine back to base or between bases

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