Starwall

Two Ideas to Nerf Hydrazine Trade

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Frankly, Hydrazine is worth way too much.

I get to a certain point in any point of Astroneers save where I'm simply grinding away, using the fuel condenser and trading Hydrazine to get any and all resources I need, and I find myself with very little or no reason to go out and explore.

I think that this needs to be balanced by doing one of two things

1. Making Hydrazine worth nothing as a trade commodity (unless a dynamic player economy is in place), or by

2. Making Hydrazine tanks/fuel containers cost Titanium to build, much like oxygen tanks, and said tanks you would be able to refill with the condenser, but a filled fuel tank wouldn't return once traded and would still be worth its current trade value.

As it stands currently, fuel-and-trade is too easy to justify any other form of gameplay. I think it stands as the single most important issue to address about the core "feel of the game", it doesn't promote exploration at all. It just feels cheaty! Thanks in advance for the consideration, I know you guys must be swamped. Keep it up, cheers!

Edited by Starwall

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16 minutes ago, Starwall said:

2. Making Hydrazine tanks/fuel containers cost Titanium

This is one of the best ideas to balance the Hydrazine I have seen! This makes it much more costly to make Hydrazine and gives weight to it. As it stands, it is possible to farm Hydrazine because it costs pure energy; it is essentially free when you add a few solar panels and a battery to your base. Making it cost titanium to create a container makes it less likely to enable this infinite Hydrazine farming.

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3 minutes ago, seejay3210 said:

This is one of the best ideas to balance the Hydrazine I have seen! This makes it much more costly to make Hydrazine and gives weight to it. As it stands, it is possible to farm Hydrazine because it costs pure energy; it is essentially free when you add a few solar panels and a battery to your base. Making it cost titanium to create a container makes it less likely to enable this infinite Hydrazine farming.

Thanks! I don't mind infinite fuel so long as your base has power, it's just that being able to infinitely trade it into everything else is a big problem. It's important to note that using the hydrazine tank would leave you with an empty tank ready to be refilled at the condenser, but by trading it you are losing the fuel and the tank, so basically you're trading away a limited resource instead of an unlimited one. As it stands currently, hydrazine tanks just sort of materialize out of thin air and then vanish once emptied into a ship's reservoir.  It'd make more sense to have the tanks be crafted via Titanium, Aluminum, or even Compound. As for mining raw hydrazine, that should still give you a tank because otherwise it'd be to easy to get stranded on a planet.

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I have to agree I have been thinking that the trading station paired a fuel condenser is a bit OP for gathering resources.

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On ‎22‎-‎12‎-‎2016 at 2:18 PM, Starwall said:

Frankly, Hydrazine is worth way too much.

I get to a certain point in any point of Astroneers save where I'm simply grinding away, using the fuel condenser and trading Hydrazine to get any and all resources I need, and I find myself with very little or no reason to go out and explore.

I think that this needs to be balanced by doing one of two things

1. Making Hydrazine worth nothing as a trade commodity (unless a dynamic player economy is in place), or by

2. Making Hydrazine tanks/fuel containers cost Titanium to build, much like oxygen tanks, and said tanks you would be able to refill with the condenser, but a filled fuel tank wouldn't return once traded and would still be worth its current trade value.

As it stands currently, fuel-and-trade is too easy to justify any other form of gameplay. I think it stands as the single most important issue to address about the core "feel of the game", it doesn't promote exploration at all. It just feels cheaty! Thanks in advance for the consideration, I know you guys must be swamped. Keep it up, cheers!

I had the same idea as your 2 also make the condenser have 4 slots on top so that in one cycle it would fill 4 tanks bit like the smelter makes 4 recourses

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I am fully on board with the idea of filling empty tanks with hydrazine.  It is a perfect solution to fix hydrazine trading without eliminating the ability to create fuel anywhere (which I consider necessary to prevent becoming stranded) and if limited oxygen is implemented then the methods of producing and storing fuel and oxygen would be mechanically tied together which is perfect game design.  I love it.

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On 22/12/2016 at 4:18 AM, Starwall said:

Frankly, Hydrazine is worth way too much.

I get to a certain point in any point of Astroneers save where I'm simply grinding away, using the fuel condenser and trading Hydrazine to get any and all resources I need, and I find myself with very little or no reason to go out and explore.

I think that this needs to be balanced by doing one of two things

1. Making Hydrazine worth nothing as a trade commodity (unless a dynamic player economy is in place), or by

2. Making Hydrazine tanks/fuel containers cost Titanium to build, much like oxygen tanks, and said tanks you would be able to refill with the condenser, but a filled fuel tank wouldn't return once traded and would still be worth its current trade value.

As it stands currently, fuel-and-trade is too easy to justify any other form of gameplay. I think it stands as the single most important issue to address about the core "feel of the game", it doesn't promote exploration at all. It just feels cheaty! Thanks in advance for the consideration, I know you guys must be swamped. Keep it up, cheers!

Lets say they nerf hydrazine to the point it can't be used on a trader.  What's next? Block coal? Refuse to allow titanium that is given from research items?  Maybe quadruple the power cost, delay the use of the trader even more..  You know what.. that other game in my library is getting more and more inviting.

Whilst I don't have issues with games being balanced.. can we wait a few months before balancing? Does it really have to be done now?  Is there so little to do on 5-6 planets that you feel fuel and trade needs to be balanced to the point people just basically stop playing the ea completely?

I look in my friends list, 50% of the people who played astroneer now play other games.  Keep up with the balancing and I suspect even I will end up playing something else.   Lets get the mechanics working first and deal with game balance later when it actually matters.

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On 12/21/2016 at 8:49 PM, Starwall said:

Thanks! I don't mind infinite fuel so long as your base has power, it's just that being able to infinitely trade it into everything else is a big problem. It's important to note that using the hydrazine tank would leave you with an empty tank ready to be refilled at the condenser, but by trading it you are losing the fuel and the tank, so basically you're trading away a limited resource instead of an unlimited one. As it stands currently, hydrazine tanks just sort of materialize out of thin air and then vanish once emptied into a ship's reservoir.  It'd make more sense to have the tanks be crafted via Titanium, Aluminum, or even Compound. As for mining raw hydrazine, that should still give you a tank because otherwise it'd be to easy to get stranded on a planet.

I like your ideas too.  One thing that would be cool is if you had the option to trade back for empty tanks.  

Other things I would like to see as far as making hydrazine production more balanced would be to make the "free" hydrating production take a lot longer.  If you mine, grow, etc other certain materials you could make it faster than just condensing it out of the atmosphere. I do like the "free" production because I could see there being situations where you're stuck with no fuel, I just feel it should come with a drawback. 

 

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28 minutes ago, Martin said:

Lets say they nerf hydrazine to the point it can't be used on a trader.  What's next? Block coal? Refuse to allow titanium that is given from research items?  Maybe quadruple the power cost, delay the use of the trader even more..  You know what.. that other game in my library is getting more and more inviting.

Whilst I don't have issues with games being balanced.. can we wait a few months before balancing? Does it really have to be done now?  Is there so little to do on 5-6 planets that you feel fuel and trade needs to be balanced to the point people just basically stop playing the ea completely?

I look in my friends list, 50% of the people who played astroneer now play other games.  Keep up with the balancing and I suspect even I will end up playing something else.   Lets get the mechanics working first and deal with game balance later when it actually matters.

I of course mean my comments in the long term sense.  I've stressed before in other discussions of this subject that I feel any adjustments they make to prevent hydrazine trading needs to be done after a proper Creative Mode is available.  As it stands, the freedom available by taking advantage of free hydrazine is the only tool that makes it feasible to quickly reach a point that we can truly go out and push the boundaries of the game to find more elusive bugs.

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