mileshiclub

Female Astroneer

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6 minutes ago, Litho said:

IMHO, for a pre-alpha and the size of the team, they made the SMART choice for this point in development. Kudos System Era

I can agree with this. I didn't mean to start an argument, I just wanted to discuss a proper implementation that would make people who agree agree. I think this game has so much potential to be a game where different types of astroneers play the game in different ways for different experiences and reason. 

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1 hour ago, Secret Squirrel said:

It is important to understand that no race, sex, religion or creed matters.

Precisely, this is why the suits are unisex and ambiguous to begin with.

 

1 hour ago, Litho said:

Some people dont necessarily identify with unisex.

xD (If this wasn't a joke, you don't understand what "unisex" means).

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17 hours ago, Eirikr said:

Precisely, this is why the suits are unisex and ambiguous to begin with.

 

xD (If this wasn't a joke, you don't understand what "unisex" means).

lol I can see the humor. xD I meant it more in the context that if it is not expressly a specific gender, the player may not feel or identify with the character the same. 

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On 12/21/2016 at 4:34 PM, SES_Adam said:

Adam here, from the team.

Besides the original "OG" you've seen in our earlier marketing of the game, we feel the other suits aren't male or female by design. They're whatever-you-want-them-to-be in those suits. That's the goal. We purposely avoided overly sexualizing the 3 additional suits one way or the other. You'll also notice the audio cues that come from the suit are inspired by the Pyro in TF2. This is also intentional.

We worked closely with Heather Penn to ensure the suits didn't lean to heavily one way or the other and really love the results for their lack of sexualization one way or the other.

In the future, we can explore more deliberate male or female suits but for now we're pretty content with this decision.

Appreciate the answer Adam, but it is sorely lacking when you use words like "sexualize" when the most basic of choices is "colour".

http://desktoppub.about.com/od/choosingcolors/f/mencolors.htm

http://www.livescience.com/22037-pink-girls-blue-boys.html

https://www.helpscout.net/blog/psychology-of-color/

 

Call it what you like.  But a colour choice is not "sexualizing" the uniforms, especially with a different colour like purple, pink, magenta, or even yellow in lieu of the choice of BLUE for 2 different suits.  It is a fact of reality and psychology, the choice of colour in identifying the genders.  The claim of 'avoiding sexualization' of the Astroneers is specious at best when the choice in COLOUR not SHAPE would have curtailed the need for any such requests or topics.

 

Adam, as it stands, your decision was based on form, when really colour would have sufficed, and your argument against such changes to form, i agree with 100%, however, as i stated already... Colour would have been easy and is not SEXUALIZING in anyway.

 

Pretty much a major disappointment for me with that rationalization.

Edited by Mica

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21 minutes ago, Mica said:

Appreciate the answer Adam, but it is sorely lacking when you use words like "sexualize" when the most basic of choices is "colour".

http://desktoppub.about.com/od/choosingcolors/f/mencolors.htm

http://www.livescience.com/22037-pink-girls-blue-boys.html

https://www.helpscout.net/blog/psychology-of-color/

 

Call it what you like.  But a colour choice is not "sexualizing" the uniforms, especially with a different colour like purple, pink, magenta, or even yellow in lieu of the choice of BLUE for 2 different suits.  It is a fact of reality and psychology, the choice of colour in identifying the genders.  The claim of 'avoiding sexualization' of the Astroneers is specious at best when the choice in COLOUR not SHAPE would have curtailed the need for any such requests or topics.

 

Adam, as it stands, your decision was based on form, when really colour would have sufficed, and your argument against such changes to form, i agree with 100%, however, as i stated already... Colour would have been easy and is not SEXUALIZING in anyway.

 

Pretty much a major disappointment for me with that rationalization.

 
 

Sorry, Mica, but I'm going to have to disagree with your game of semantics here. 

The OP wanted "color and accessories" and asked for a "female" avatar. When you take something neutral and make it gender-specific, you are then sexualizing that object, item, suit, etc. In fact, by definition, making the avatars one sex or the other is "sexualizing" the avatar. Don't believe me, then use a dictionary and you'll see that the term sexualize is pretty broad in terms of how it can be applied as a verb. 

What Adam did, and I think he did it brilliantly, is quash the notion of any sexualized avatars, whether it be in form, color, accessory, or other. Your response is quite unfortunate, actually, because it continues this 'attack' by trying to redefine a word to your own liking that serves to justify your cognitive dissonance for having been told by a dev that sexualization of avatars will not be a 'thing' (or at least not in the foreseeable future). He was clear, concise, and honest. Yet you still managed to bend the meaning of words in a way that upsets you, and for what?

What purpose does the aforementioned comment have? Are you trying to bait him into a gender discussion? I really don't see the point - although you're more than welcome to make it. I think you're being petty, nitpicky, and I think you missed his entire point. It's hard to see through those pink-colored glasses. Perhaps it's time you take them off and join us in the real world. 

Edited by Punnilingus

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I like the current gender neutral models - I think they look like stick figures in astronaut suits - which is fantastic.  More color options would be great, but I'd rather see time spent on that sort of thing come after content, mechanics and bug fixes.

Edited by HybridLogic

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I think a good solution to this end is letting us customize our avatars before starting a game. I understand why they would eschew it for now, being that it's lower priority than bug fixing and such. But I would love to be able to choose characteristics of my avatar like body shape, height, suit color, decals, and maybe colors of lights.

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10 hours ago, Punnilingus said:

Sorry, Mica, but I'm going to have to disagree with your game of semantics here. 

The OP wanted "color and accessories" and asked for a "female" avatar. When you take something neutral and make it gender-specific, you are then sexualizing that object, item, suit, etc. In fact, by definition, making the avatars one sex or the other is "sexualizing" the avatar. Don't believe me, then use a dictionary and you'll see that the term sexualize is pretty broad in terms of how it can be applied as a verb. 

What Adam did, and I think he did it brilliantly, is quash the notion of any sexualized avatars, whether it be in form, color, accessory, or other. Your response is quite unfortunate, actually, because it continues this 'attack' by trying to redefine a word to your own liking that serves to justify your cognitive dissonance for having been told by a dev that sexualization of avatars will not be a 'thing' (or at least not in the foreseeable future). He was clear, concise, and honest. Yet you still managed to bend the meaning of words in a way that upsets you, and for what?

What purpose does the aforementioned comment have? Are you trying to bait him into a gender discussion? I really don't see the point - although you're more than welcome to make it. I think you're being petty, nitpicky, and I think you missed his entire point. It's hard to see through those pink-colored glasses. Perhaps it's time you take them off and join us in the real world. 

The only baiting happening is your post, and it is quite obvious.



There are no semantics with the word 'sexualize'.  My reply was to remove the issue of "form" and move it to "colour" - since forms are easily sexualized in games these days non-stop.  Colour - not at all.

 

However playing your game for one round, since you chose the word "semantics" and "sexualization" as requiring a dictionary to understand: 

[quote=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexualization]

"Sexualization occurs when "individuals are regarded as sex objects and evaluated in terms of their physical characteristics and sexiness."[3] "In study after study, findings have indicated that women more often than men are portrayed in a sexual manner (e.g., dressed in revealing clothing, with bodily postures or facial expressions that imply sexual readiness) and are objectified (e.g., used as a decorative object, or as body parts rather than a whole person). In addition, a narrow (and unrealistic) standard of physical beauty is heavily emphasized."[/quote]

Colour falls outside of this.  Apparently any colour other than Blue, Green Orange, that can be auto-associated with women is acceptable.

 

Nevertheless the truth is:  [quote=https://www.helpscout.net/blog/psychology-of-color/] In a study titled “Impact of color on marketing,” researchers found that up to 90% of snap judgments made about products can be based on color alone, depending on the product.
 Regarding the role that color plays in branding, results from another study show that the relationship between brands and color hinges on the perceived appropriateness of the color being used for the particular brand (does the color "fit" what is being sold?).
 [/quote]


Evidently the article is correct, "perceived appropriateness" rules the choice, and any colour that can strongly be associated with female is inappropriate, since the choice we were told is "neutrality".

No one is being baited into any conversation.  This is the last reply I will make, and will not read any further discussions.

 

Thank you.

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Just quick heads up for those who just jumped into thread. Devs talked talked about this topic on their latest live podcast / let's play on twitch. It's around 59:02... so you guys might like to listen to it if you don't feel like reading through all those four pages of replies we have here
 


In short:
They'd like to keep suits ambiguous and let the players decide via customisation if they'd like it to look femine / masculine.

Imho it's a good way to satisfy everyone...

Edited by Brickfest

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1 hour ago, Brickfest said:


In short:
They'd like to keep suits ambiguous and let the players decide via customisation if they'd like it to look femine / masculine.

Imho it's a good way to satisfy everyone...

I think your right. It's really cool to hear their thought process behind the design. I think the tf2 reference is so cool and shows how much thought they put in. Im excited to see the new suits in the future as well as how the constructive conversations that happened in this thread will effect the designs they do.

Edited by mileshiclub

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Wow. None of Mica's comments make any fucking sense, either in relation to Adam's response and/or judgement, or in relation to reality at large. I like the overcompensation by citing studies unrelated to anything just to pad her social narrative, and how she predictably ended her second message with: "This is the last reply I will make, and will not read any further discussions.". Classic ideologue, the dogma is strong with this one.

Get a grip, and then try again.


P.D. This thread should've been closed after Adam's response, otherwise it just keeps on giving.

Edited by Eirikr

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On 12/22/2016 at 7:52 PM, Litho said:

lol I can see the humor. xD I meant it more in the context that if it is not expressly a specific gender, the player may not feel or identify with the character the same. 

Do you feel the need to identify with Pacman when you're playing as him? And if so, is the fact that he's not even human a problem? Game characters are not supposed to be mirror images of yourself, they are just interfaces between you and the virtual world, and if you "need" to see your goddamn face on a photograph stuck to the character's face in order to enjoy the game, then you have a problem that goes beyond videogames, and that is called IDENTITY POLITICS: One of the worst modern sociocultural ills.

Later on, further astronaut customization will be a welcome addition to the game. But trying to push this stupid agenda of "we need women who are clearly women because even though we have ambiguous suits which might include men or women or walking potatoes we HAVE to know there are WOMEN underneath those clothes, or else! Otherwise we can't enjoy the game! And give me some purses for my extraterrestrial astronauts as well!" is dumb. As Squirrel ironically said, " It is important to understand that no race, sex, religion or creed matters. ", so stop giving it undue importance. When I play as a woman in a game such as Portal 2, for example, I have 0 trouble "identifying" with her. She's human, I'm human; period. I'm not going to demand the developers add a male character instead, she is who she is, and I couldn't care less about her fucking sex. Only a sexist cares about these things, CASE IN POINT? This whole annoying thread.

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Moving forward the conversation that continues in this thread should be exclusively about what kind of customization should be added to move the current and new suits to make them more feminine. This topic title is called "female astroneers" and as such we should stay on topics. Everyone trying to voice there opinions about what they think the astroneers are in the suits should go to the correct thread to voice those opinions. This topic is about customization of the avatars to reach an specific type of aesthetic, a Female one. Anything posted that is off topic will be reported accordingly. Thank You

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Hey guys, Adam here. I think topics like these are healthy discussions to have but I'm going to lock this thread for now. We've heard a lot of opinions about the suits and appreciate everything that's been shared, but I think its taking a turn towards a downward spiral. I hate, HATE, closing discussions but this one in particular needs to be put on ice before things get to hot.

Adam

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This topic is now closed to further replies.