SES_joe

"Patch 189" : Jun 16th, 2017

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SO its been how long now 20 days since the last patch, just wondering if you guys in system era intend to actually progress in releases? or just stalemate at patch 189 some on guys what happen to weekly updates Jesus how hard is it just to push out 1 update a week even if its a small update like fixing a small bug or adding more options to the ui it doest take that long to push out an update for minimalist things...like I was patients when we had no updates for i think it was 1 month or 2 because of the heart break you guys had and we the community (mostly) supported you but now idk whats going on but we need progress just giving us weekly video blogs isn't enough I can assure you people are starting to notice how long it been since we actually had a decent update, if this goes on to a month with no update Im afraid im going to call this game A FailFish like NOmansky was I have 200 steam friends 30 of them play Astroneer but none of them have been on iit in the last 2 weeks what does that tell you? its time for something big to draw them back inn AND PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WEEKLY UPDATES ARE A MUST! Because when people see your putting 110% into this game and pushing for though's weekly updates we feel like we are being looked after like our community is a community. I am 2 weeks away from quitting this game because of the sole fact of no constant reliable frequent updates, like jebus a custom game made on the dota 2 client called Roshpit champions gets 3 updates per week! adding new things fixing bug etc etc why aren't a team of 8 is it? not producing as much as a sole person can do? I think you guys are slacking and really need to get a move on with this game. 

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Patience young grasshopper..

Actually I was gonna ask the same thing, but in a nicer way.  Get a move on SE!!! What am I paying for??!! /sic

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The game is currently unplayable IMO due to vehicle behaviour, so I've been away playing Zero Dawn. To return after 3 weeks to find nothing changed is really disapointing.

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On 7/7/2017 at 9:11 AM, SophisticatedDonkey said:

SO its been how long now 20 days since the last patch, just wondering if you guys in system era intend to actually progress in releases?

They do. 20 days isn't a long time.

On 7/7/2017 at 9:11 AM, SophisticatedDonkey said:

Jesus how hard is it just to push out 1 update a week

They could release a buggy mess (with potential game breakers) once a week, sure.

I doubt the community would like it, though.

I don't know if you've noticed, but they are working on terrain 2.0 and modular vehicle construction. Those are major features that require an immense time investment, and it's better to wait for them to be in a usable state.

On 7/7/2017 at 9:11 AM, SophisticatedDonkey said:

if this goes on to a month with no update Im afraid im going to call this game A FailFish like NOmansky

No Man's Sky didn't fail because of their update pacing, but rather because of really bad marketing which over promised and under delivered.

This is an utterly absurd assertion. Astroneer is nowhere close to failing.

On 7/7/2017 at 9:11 AM, SophisticatedDonkey said:

I have 200 steam friends 30 of them play Astroneer but none of them have been on iit in the last 2 weeks

That's fine. They'll be back for the next update.

On 7/7/2017 at 9:11 AM, SophisticatedDonkey said:

what does that tell you?

Nothing that I don't already know. We all know that Astroneer isn't a fully fleshed out game and won't keep attention for very long. Even Hearthstone (a fully released game) wanes after a period of time, but picks up again when a new expansion is released.

On 7/7/2017 at 9:11 AM, SophisticatedDonkey said:

like jebus a custom game made on the dota 2 client called Roshpit champions gets 3 updates per week!

Roshpit champions advertises 21 unique heroes and 150 legendary items. That's a lot of content to tweak to keep balanced. So its developer(s) can push minor tweaks constantly. Astroneer is in the middle of an overhaul of two very large systems. Those are two very different situations.

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Beeing a software developer myself I fully understand the current development priorities. Slowing down now to build up a solid base for later faster development makes totally sense to me and I understand the importance. I think you have been doing a great job so far and I love the game and its potential.

But beeing a gamer and a customer on the other hand is starting to make me feel a little disappointed as well. Every Friday I am visiting this forum hoping for a new patch, so that I would have a reason to play this game again. The last patch 189 didn't really improve the gaming experience, since not much changed at all in my opinion. Since I don't like playing solo, the game has content for about 4-6 hours playing at least with one friend in its current state. After that, you either have researched everything and there is nothing really left to do, or you cannot continue playing because of massive multiplayer desync problems when visiting other planets.

I am totally aware that you know about all this bugs and that they are gonna be fixed, but I would really prefer some more small updates, even if they just add little things. E.g. a new building or a new type of item, or some new plants / resources / whatever. I think those type of content could be developed in parallel to your new code base, (please proove me wrong if this is not the case). Even small new things would make me want to try out the new patch, playing the game again and keep telling my friends how awesome it is, which brings me to another point: I frequently get asked by my friends about the game and wether they should buy it or not, and my thruthfull answer is usually: "The game is awesome, but I would wait for the next big update to buy it, because it can get very frustrating in multiplayer".

So keep up the good work, but please give us something new to make us play the game again! What happened to the experimental branch btw? I thought it was a greath thing because it gives insight into current state of development.

best regards

Baconschwein

 

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8 hours ago, CobraA1 said:

They do. 20 days isn't a long time.

They could release a buggy mess (with potential game breakers) once a week, sure.

I doubt the community would like it, though.

I don't know if you've noticed, but they are working on terrain 2.0 and modular vehicle construction. Those are major features that require an immense time investment, and it's better to wait for them to be in a usable state.

No Man's Sky didn't fail because of their update pacing, but rather because of really bad marketing which over promised and under delivered.

This is an utterly absurd assertion. Astroneer is nowhere close to failing.

That's fine. They'll be back for the next update.

Nothing that I don't already know. We all know that Astroneer isn't a fully fleshed out game and won't keep attention for very long. Even Hearthstone (a fully released game) wanes after a period of time, but picks up again when a new expansion is released.

Roshpit champions advertises 21 unique heroes and 150 legendary items. That's a lot of content to tweak to keep balanced. So its developer(s) can push minor tweaks constantly. Astroneer is in the middle of an overhaul of two very large systems. Those are two very different situations.

Its already a buggy mess! (weekly releases don't = a buggy mess(that's just thinking stupidly)) Constant UPDATES that really show the community that even if its small thing being fixed your still pushing to get some sort of progress to the game to show the people who bought into the pre-alpha or even earlier then that that you mean business that your doing EVERYTHING to get this game in a working order, Yes they are working on a big update does that mean you can't push out 1 or 2 bug fixes a week? NO that's just excusing them for laziness. Ok lets talk about this in a logical way of thinking lets say this new update is taking up all their time in the mean time people are leaving the game they getting disinterested their getting bored of playing the same "buggy mess" everyday without any "small weekly updates" to fix them if they took 10% of their time away from this new BIG UPDATE and just fixated on a small weekly bug update for what 1 hour a day wow like god that is good progress/marketing to the people your actually caring about weekly progress, YES it is in pre-alpha but NO-ONE forced them to release it as a pre-alpha they brought it to us like this if you don't have weekly updates what the point of having a game that a buggy mess still beautiful but a "buggy mess" I don't know any game that leaves updates for 3 weeks or months at a time. And I don't know if you know this or not I'm not hating on the game or anything I LOVE this game and what it potentially could be! I am hating on the slow progress and lack of progress information these video blogs are very vague and not really giving away that much I don't want it my friends don't want that we want progression we want bug fixes EVEN if its ONLY 1 per week just take some time and fix it! anyway that's my 50-cents opinion.    

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I too haven't played Astroneer for 5 or 6 weeks as I have run out of things to do. I too wish for new shinies. But, I also understand that:

1) The nature of a pre-alpha is not to introduce new features but to make sure the ones already there are working the way they should. In the case of the Astroneer pre-alpha, that means among other things fixing vehicles that sank and disappeared into the ground (seems to be fixed now), flip over or launch into orbit.

2) Once we get in the alpha phase, then new features will be introduced.

3) Finally, in beta, the game will be mostly feature-complete and it will be time to lick the remaining bugs off.

The argument that "NO-ONE forced them to release it as a pre-alpha" doesn't make any sense as NO-ONE was forced to buy the game in its pre-alpha phase. Releasing a pre-alpha brought money in, which allowed to rent a space, hire more staff and turn the game from a basement project into something more substantial. If there is a "fault" for releasing a pre-alpha, the fault isn't in the releasing but perhaps in not being clear enough what a pre-alpha is and, more important, what it isn't.

SES could do a better job communicating. As much as I enjoyed the tidbits about features that will be introduced in the future (better research system, modular vehicles, terrain 2.0, etc.), I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd appreciate more concrete information about the next release (content, fixes, and target date).

Finally, if anyone paid attention when watching the SES Vlog 007 (Terrain 2.0) released on July 4 (no idea when it was shot), the Astroneer intro screen showed version 03.203.1 so there is some kind of progress going on. Anything SES can share with us?

 

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3 hours ago, SophisticatedDonkey said:

Its already a buggy mess! (weekly releases don't = a buggy mess(that's just thinking stupidly)) Constant UPDATES that really show the community that even if its small thing being fixed your still pushing to get some sort of progress to the game to show the people who bought into the pre-alpha or even earlier then that that you mean business that your doing EVERYTHING to get this game in a working order, Yes they are working on a big update does that mean you can't push out 1 or 2 bug fixes a week? NO that's just excusing them for laziness. Ok lets talk about this in a logical way of thinking lets say this new update is taking up all their time in the mean time people are leaving the game they getting disinterested their getting bored of playing the same "buggy mess" everyday without any "small weekly updates" to fix them if they took 10% of their time away from this new BIG UPDATE and just fixated on a small weekly bug update for what 1 hour a day wow like god that is good progress/marketing to the people your actually caring about weekly progress, YES it is in pre-alpha but NO-ONE forced them to release it as a pre-alpha they brought it to us like this if you don't have weekly updates what the point of having a game that a buggy mess still beautiful but a "buggy mess" I don't know any game that leaves updates for 3 weeks or months at a time. And I don't know if you know this or not I'm not hating on the game or anything I LOVE this game and what it potentially could be! I am hating on the slow progress and lack of progress information these video blogs are very vague and not really giving away that much I don't want it my friends don't want that we want progression we want bug fixes EVEN if its ONLY 1 per week just take some time and fix it! anyway that's my 50-cents opinion.    

Obviously you don't play 7 days to die. ( great game BTW )   last stable update was 5 months ago  so complain all you want but These guys are doing a great job we have been getting updates about ever 3 weeks. Keep up the great work SES. I do agree the vlog is very generic and very short. some more game play videos would be nice as well with some explanation and what is being fixed in the game like they did at the start.

Edited by ammo77

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It isnt very sophisticated to call them lazy ?

If they are lazy they are on the way to a great economical messup. If this is their job and the income is based on the current and future sales, its illogical that they would not do what they must in this state of development.

That many employees doesnt come for free so they are likely not slacking.

But you are right about how annoying the bugs make the game right now.

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15 minutes ago, Moonminer008 said:

It isnt very sophisticated to call them lazy ?

If they are lazy they are on the way to a great economical messup. If this is their job and the income is based on the current and future sales, its illogical that they would not do what they must in this state of development.

That many employees doesnt come for free so they are likely not slacking.

But you are right about how annoying the bugs make the game right now.

You didn't get what I meant when I said "lazy" did you? Sigh* It's not even worth explaining I am tired of typing, but I will say this READ BETWEEN THE LINES.

3 hours ago, Eoghan said:

The argument that "NO-ONE forced them to release it as a pre-alpha" doesn't make any sense as NO-ONE was forced to buy the game in its pre-alpha phase. Releasing a pre-alpha brought money in, which allowed to rent a space, hire more staff and turn the game from a basement project into something more substantial. If there is a "fault" for releasing a pre-alpha, the fault isn't in the releasing but perhaps in not being clear enough what a pre-alpha is and, more important, what it isn't.

Did you even get what I was trying to say dude? EXPECTATIONS, CRITICISM and PROGRESS are three things people think about when they see pre-alpha, I have HIGH expectations I love the game in though expectations is a degree of professionalism and  progress! If a game fails to like up to all 3 in the consumers eye then its not good, don't you agree?

3 hours ago, ammo77 said:

Obviously you don't play 7 days to die. ( great game BTW )   last stable update was 5 months ago  so complain all you want but These guys are doing a great job we have been getting updates about ever 3 weeks. Keep up the great work SES. I do agree the vlog is very generic and very short. some more game play videos would be nice as well with some explanation and what is being fixed in the game like they did at the start.

Have never played it but tell me this is it a complete game and if it is then don't reply to this message cause it bares no relevance to the current discussion.

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On ‎07‎.‎07‎.‎2017 at 4:11 PM, SophisticatedDonkey said:

like I was patients when we had no updates for i think it was 1 month or 2 because of the heart break you guys had and we the community (mostly) supported you but now idk whats going on

This.... is someone any one should feel ashamed of writing. Remember this is open for the whole world to see. The worst thing I know is to involve in heated forum threads, I dont like to be visible, at all. But since I was stupid enough to Write without mentioning the thing i really reacted to, I do it now. I as a community member cant stand for this. I had hoped the mods would remove the post earlier, it have nothing on a public forum to do.

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I can see why we are getting some heated up discussions lately. I know, quite a few of you are waiting for progress, especially new content. I mean, most people don't notice the bug fixes after all, they want something to play with, right?

Anyway, as general reminder: This is Early Access, Pre-Alpha. Remember, software development isn't as straight forwarded as some people think. To visualize this: 

Spoiler

Imq9PZf.gif

Simply put, yes, people have expectations and the developers simply need to try to react that accordingly to draw in more. Even so, it may be majority, but that doesn't mean they're right (from a logical standpoint). If 95 out of 100 people expect that an Early Access game needs to progress smoothly with a certain amount of content in each update (or rather what the end user imagines to get) within a certain time frame, then that doesn't mean it's logical for them to expect that. However, as said, the developers have to try to react to that in order to keep the majority interested. It's still a business.

Anyway, what I am saying is that you should be one of the 5 out of 100 and just be patient. Putting too much pressure on the developers will hurt everyone involved. It's basically contradicting yourself as you go against your own wish. That's the possible result, at least. There are plenty of other games out there that can keep you busy while you wait for Astroneer to develop. Don't let Astroneer be your one and only. :P

PS: And no, this wasn't an invitation to continue this discussion. You know what I mean...

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14 hours ago, SophisticatedDonkey said:

Constant UPDATES that really show the community that even if its small thing being fixed your still pushing to get some sort of progress

 

14 hours ago, SophisticatedDonkey said:

Yes they are working on a big update does that mean you can't push out 1 or 2 bug fixes a week? NO that's just excusing them for laziness.

Multitasking is less efficient than sticking to a single task. If they're deep into the systems they are working on, it would actually be ill advised to fix unrelated bugs just because one person wants updates really fast. Compounding that is the fact that the systems they are working on will likely have new bugs for them to fix, and the fact that old bugs may go away when the old systems go away.

14 hours ago, SophisticatedDonkey said:

in the mean time people are leaving the game they getting disinterested their getting bored of playing the same "buggy mess" everyday without any "small weekly updates" to fix them

That's fine. They'll be back. I'm personally playing other games right now, but I'll gladly jump back into Astroneer when the next update hits.

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17 hours ago, Wyvyrias said:

Remember, software development isn't as straight forwarded as some people think. To visualize this: 

  Reveal hidden contents

Imq9PZf.gif

 

LOL, so true. Permission to share the graphic on social media?

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9 hours ago, CobraA1 said:

LOL, so true. Permission to share the graphic on social media?

Found that myself somewhere, so I couldn't say. I won't mind, though. lol

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So on the main page of the astroneer website, there is a screenshot of a big spaceship consisting of what appears to be 4 different compartments which looks like they are used for different purposes, i might have missed where that was added into the game and curious to know if that is actually in the game currently or very experimental vehicle that looked appealing for new players, so you added complete textures on it and made it looked finish, all I want to know if its going to be implemented soon? Oh and I forgot about the yellow tethers and the wireless power stations next to the unnamed vehicle which seem to be functioning.

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I don't find the slow updates unreasonable...nor slow. I haven't played the game since end of April simply because there's just not much that you can get out of it and I don't wanna end up exhausting my interest. All updates afterwards were mainly to fix bugs. Whatever they choose to do, no matter whether it's a bug or new feature, takes quite a while. I feel as if they rush things to meet the "every couple of weeks" pattern.

Still, I do have my list of decisions that I agree/disagree with. One good example would be the lack of content in the updates; they were focusing mostly on bugs, which is fine until you notice that there was not a significant addition since launch. What I mean is currently there's very little reason, beyond the view, to travel to other planets; 90% of your journey is met at your second planet. In my mind, "Alpha" refers to the period of a software/product/game/etc when features are being added continuously (not constantly), which could lead to a crash or undesired end-behavior. The point of it is to generate a static roadmap for that product. "Beta" is where you focus on bugs. But I'll respect their reasons for doing so, they're the ones coding, not me :P 

That said, it's their decision on how to do things and meet their goals. Whichever choice is made, there's going to be a downtime and a dissatisfied customer. Working on more content leads to angry customers who are affected by the current bugs, and working on bugs leads to people asking for more content...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Take your time doods. I'm cool with things so far.

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I Haven't played for a bit, but I understand the lack of updates. System Era is a smaller group and they don't have a publisher looming from behind telling to hit a deadline. With that said. I would like more communication on when we may get another update or when content may be added, they are polishing the base for new stuff, it makes sense. But the idea that, "its pre-alpha, so we are focused on bug fixes" needs more context or more explaining, I mean, is their an estimated time for when the game will enter alpha? Its like what? a year since the game launched and its still only in pre-alpha? I can understand it not being like beta, but even with a smaller group, it could have at least hit alpha right?

 

 

 

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People have a lot of ideas on what "pre-alpha" or "alpha" or even "beta" means.  It means whatever the developer wants it to mean. Nothing else, nothing more, nothing less.  Period.  End of story.  Done.  Finite.  Over.

Yeah, I too wish more, as this game is so intriguing, yet woefully unfinished.  Personally, I'd put up with more bugs.  That's pre-release software, no matter what stage.  Oh well...

Oh and, Wyvyrias:  Even so, it may be majority, but that doesn't mean they're right (from a logical standpoint).   Crowd mentality and logic are incompatible :)  Yet, the "right" entity wins via well played politics.  (i.e. the devs should release something shocking... he he...)

( I know I know...  not for continued discussion...)

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On 8-7-2017 at 8:25 AM, Isotonic said:

The game is currently unplayable IMO due to vehicle behaviour, so I've been away playing Zero Dawn. To return after 3 weeks to find nothing changed is really disapointing.

With the current speed they are working on the game, we might actually see an official release in 2025, maybe even later.

I bought the game 6/7 months ago, and there hasnt been alot of added content changes, even multiplayer is bugged af. Game has great potential, shame the developing is so slow.

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1 hour ago, Grimstar said:

With the current speed they are working on the game, we might actually see an official release in 2025, maybe even later.

I bought the game 6/7 months ago, and there hasnt been alot of added content changes, even multiplayer is bugged af. Game has great potential, shame the developing is so slow.

Game development is not just content, it is also systems. Once they have systems like terrain 2.0 in place, content will pick up the pace. 

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@CobraA1 , @Grimstar has a point its now 1 day away from 1 month of no updates and now that I think about it 7 months is a long time with developing yes BUT they didn't have 10 members back then they had what was it 5? or 4? Most popular games that get released quickly have 30-50 people working on it these guys have 10! Sure the game is moving slow but in respect I love this game and if it takes 2 years to make ill be happy waiting, but 1 month with no updates is getting on my nerves lets do some maths 1 month = around 30 days x actual work done (ie programming bug fixing art etc,) also taking in consideration talking slacking off with blogs and having fun on mini games and dev meeting it probably 6 hours a day x number of people working on the game so 10 so 10x6x30 its around about 1800 hours spent on developing this game this month alone and imo that's a lot of work hours and to see nonthing yet...is really annoying me now I know there are some defensive people that only wan to defend the devs and not actually see or do the math to updates/expectation/progress (and yes their doing their best), but its not wrong to expect more and when I watch the dev streams it seems laid back/mucking around and not really serious/pushing for something, If this dev team had a pressuring team leader (and not pressuring to bad to make mistakes, just setting common deadlines and progress reports) then god I think this game wouldn't be in pre-alpha anymore maybe just alpha? (idk I seem to be putting more expectation on them then they do on themselves) and I know I am going to get a lot of hate for this but it NEEDS to be said weekly Blogs are not enough information and not enough in general, alright there is my 10cents opinion bring on the defensive non-thinking fan boys that offer nothing accept cool ideas and what do you call shit criticism? Projected Criticism. 

ALSO DON'T GET ME WRONG THEY ALL SEEM NICE AND FUNNY!!!! AND I HATE TO BE THAT PERSON BUT SOMEONE NEEDS TO BE!

 

LUL.jpg

Edited by SophisticatedDonkey

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2 hours ago, SophisticatedDonkey said:

@CobraA1 , @Grimstar has a point

Not really.

2 hours ago, SophisticatedDonkey said:

its now 1 day away from 1 month of no updates

No Man's Sky has Astroneer beat. It looks like the next update of No Man's Sky will be next month, which I believe makes that a four month wait. In addition, Hearthstone updates three times a year. Many games have a multi-month update schedule; this is nothing unusual.

2 hours ago, SophisticatedDonkey said:

and now that I think about it 7 months is a long time

Most games take about three years from beginning of development to release.

2 hours ago, SophisticatedDonkey said:

lets do some maths 1 month = around 30 days x actual work done (ie programming bug fixing art etc,)

Actually, it's closer to 20 - remember, it's a work week (5 days per week).

Of course, to further complicate things: A "man hour" is not equal to the sheer number of hours worked. Somebody who is stressed out or lacks sleep will have a fraction of the productivity as a person who has healthy stress levels and is wide awake. This is why when the Ford Motor company went to the 40 hour work week in 1926, productivity went up, not down. This is also why I reject the notion that recreational time ought to be always considered "slacking." Time spent recuperating is actually time well spent, as long as there is still time spent working.

2 hours ago, SophisticatedDonkey said:

its around about 1800 hours spent on developing this game this month alone

So riddle me this: Do you have an accurate, well researched idea of how many man hours it takes to write code, fix bugs, create content, etc?

2 hours ago, SophisticatedDonkey said:

I know I am going to get a lot of hate for this but it NEEDS to be said weekly Blogs are not enough information and not enough in general,

Do you want them to spend man hours writing blogs, or do you want them to spend man hours developing the game? I do happen to notice you wrote the rather unkindly words "slacking off with blogs ."

Or maybe your post was sarcasm, hard to say.

EDIT/ADD (however the forums wants to do it, I don't really like this edit policy...): By the way, GTA IV took four years to develop, and involved thousands of people (with a core team of 150). Just so you have an idea of the sheer scale of game development.

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28 minutes ago, CobraA1 said:

Not really.

No Man's Sky has Astroneer beat. It looks like the next update of No Man's Sky will be next month, which I believe makes that a four month wait. In addition, Hearthstone updates three times a year. Many games have a multi-month update schedule; this is nothing unusual.

Most games take about three years from beginning of development to release.

Actually, it's closer to 20 - remember, it's a work week (5 days per week).

Of course, to further complicate things: A "man hour" is not equal to the sheer number of hours worked. Somebody who is stressed out or lacks sleep will have a fraction of the productivity as a person who has healthy stress levels and is wide awake. This is why when the Ford Motor company went to the 40 hour work week in 1926, productivity went up, not down. This is also why I reject the notion that recreational time ought to be always considered "slacking." Time spent recuperating is actually time well spent, as long as there is still time spent working.

So riddle me this: Do you have an accurate, well researched idea of how many man hours it takes to write code, fix bugs, create content, etc?

Do you want them to spend man hours writing blogs, or do you want them to spend man hours developing the game? I do happen to notice you wrote the rather unkindly words "slacking off with blogs ."

Or maybe your post was sarcasm, hard to say.

EDIT/ADD (however the forums wants to do it, I don't really like this edit policy...): By the way, GTA IV took four years to develop, and involved thousands of people (with a core team of 150). Just so you have an idea of the sheer scale of game development.

I knew you would say something over analyzing what is right in front of you.

1st: Astroneer is a game you cant compare to any other it has simpler graphics then AAA games like GTA IV that dont take long to implement with the way Atroneer is and going to be its going to be way less complex then gta IV it not going to have ANY story so said the devs so thats way less content already vs gta IV your argument has no backing LUL if you get a good coder you can get so much code written so quickly ow and btw your whole man hour argument bears no relevance I wasn't trying to do anything their except work out the exact number of hours put into coding ALSO they have a person DEDICATED to answering community questions and is responsible for communicating to US are you stupid? He is in the vlogs every week......

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