SES, would you kindly explain why you deliberately removed a feature from the game?


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Let me start by stating that I like Astroneer in its current state. Even if development stopped forever right now, I would continue to play and enjoy the game. Fortunately, development continues and I like to see options for various play styles in a game like Astroneer. The trading of hydrazine was one of those options. But you removed that option. And we do not know the reason why. You may have noticed that this topic spawned some discussions, with quite an amount of speculation. Could you, please, tell us your reasoning for the decision to remove that particular feature?

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Not being a huge reader of forums or game spoiler websites myself I came across the hydrazine trading "loophole' myself and admittedly to start with I used it. I soon realized that it made the game trivial and non-fun.

Obviously in real life over production of a resource and flooding it onto the market sees diminishing returns i.e. over supply of crude oil causes the price to crash.

Why not just represent this in game? It would be easy to code after all.

 

 

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From the looks of it, they are giving consideration to the issue of farming for particular resources. They have not said any particular reason, but IMO the reason is likely because hydrazine is currently infinite, and they want to limit trading to finite resources. They very likely also have future plans for hydrazine that the are not willing to share just yet.

 

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Well..... Hard work encourages Exploration.....And Caves full of dead Astroneers

We cant have a resource just pulled out of thin air.......

Oh wait with a bunch of power we do that to make Oxygen, Nitrogen, Carbon Dioxide, Argon.... lots of other gasses..... and with Water de do it also..... and with many minerals the same thing.... But in the 25th century we cant even get a map..... no matter how much energy we have..... 

By the Way don't you have a cave to die in..... Now back to Work.....

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The intention of this thread was not to continue the speculation but to get some more substantial information. So please, let's refrain from repeating here the discussion that has already been done in numerous other threads.

 

5 hours ago, Lithium said:

Well, buddy indirectly saying... farming hydrazine was not the intended playstyle, period.

I give you the benefit of being a moderator on this forum, so I take your reply as a quasi official one. Does this imply that there will only be a single play style in Astroneer? Astroneer will never be a sandbox game supporting various different play styles? That's disappointing, but I am glad to learn this early about what to expect.

On a more general note, you all may have not realized it but this is the first time since Astroneer has gone Early Access that a feature was deliberately removed from the game. Without any word of explanation from the developers. To be honest, I expected something different when SES stated: "Over time, this will lead us to a game that you, as a community, have built with us. [...] The future is bright and we look forward to building Astroneer with you!"

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5 minutes ago, Marck said:

I give you the benefit of being a moderator on this forum, so I take your reply as a quasi official one. Does this imply that there will only be a single play style in Astroneer? Astroneer will never be a sandbox game supporting various different play styles? That's disappointing, but I am glad to learn this early about what to expect.

Please do not take moderator replies regarding the game's development as official statements, unless we explicitly say so. We're community moderators, not employees of System Era Softworks, as such we lack a lot of internal insight.

7 minutes ago, Marck said:

On a more general note, you all may have not realized it but this is the first time since Astroneer has gone Early Access that a feature was deliberately removed from the game. Without any word of explanation from the developers. To be honest, I expected something different when SES stated: "Over time, this will lead us to a game that you, as a community, have built with us. [...] The future is bright and we look forward to building Astroneer with you!"

Features are being added and removed all the time, that's how Early Access works. It's a time where the developers can try new things. Don't see the "removal" of a feature as an actual removal. See the mere presence of the feature as an opportunity to try it out and deliver feedback. If it happens to disappear, that just means it wasn't good enough for the game, either for now or for ever. Mind that community feedback is very important, but developers (that goes for all) always want to (and have to) follow their own vision to realize the game. The community helps to realize it in a way that everyone will be happy with in the end, but they do not lead the development...that'd be quite a mess.

That said, as for the Hydrazine trading, it obviously did not fit into the overall concept of exploration (it enabled you to ignore exploration for the most part and just produce resources out of thin air). However, automation and similar things are planned, which means it'll eventually come back, though not necessarily in the form we know it.

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16 minutes ago, Marck said:

The intention of this thread was not to continue the speculation but to get some more substantial information. So please, let's refrain from repeating here the discussion that has already been done in numerous other threads.

 

I give you the benefit of being a moderator on this forum, so I take your reply as a quasi official one. Does this imply that there will only be a single play style in Astroneer? Astroneer will never be a sandbox game supporting various different play styles? That's disappointing, but I am glad to learn this early about what to expect.

On a more general note, you all may have not realized it but this is the first time since Astroneer has gone Early Access that a feature was deliberately removed from the game. Without any word of explanation from the developers. To be honest, I expected something different when SES stated: "Over time, this will lead us to a game that you, as a community, have built with us. [...] The future is bright and we look forward to building Astroneer with you!"

If the only reason you want tradeable hydrazine back is because you feel it takes away from play through strategies, you need to reassess your view on gaming. Taking out a function that allows a player to actively bypass the entire game, is not a play through style. Its a malfunction. There is nothing to gain from this other than the fact that you successful waste your time on something that will inevitably become boring.

 

Unfortunately, the move to ban traceable hydrazine was the only method to prevent abuse, aside from removing craftable hydrazine, which would've impacted gameplay far worse

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I am not asking or wanting to lead or steer development. I do not even necessarily want hydrazine trading back. I want to know more about the reasoning for the decision to remove it. That's why I ask, because I want to learn more about the developers' vision.

SES published long blog postings about new or changed features like augments and the research curve. I am very grateful for that. But I think the removal of features should be an equally worthy subject to post about. Because it gives us insight into what the developers' vision actually is. I want more insight into the developers' thought process regarding the game.

 

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6 minutes ago, Marck said:

I am not asking or wanting to lead or steer development. I do not even necessarily want hydrazine trading back. I want to know more about the reasoning for the decision to remove it. That's why I ask, because I want to learn more about the developers' vision.

SES published long blog postings about new or changed features like augments and the research curve. I am very grateful for that. But I think the removal of features should be an equally worthy subject to post about. Because it gives us insight into what the developers' vision actually is. I want more insight into the developers' thought process regarding the game.

Secret sources told me you'll (most likely) get what you you're asking for (the information part) next week . ;)

And don't take my previous reply to be directed at you in particular. I just wanted to drop that for the general audience.

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8 minutes ago, Wyvyrias said:

Secret sources told me you'll get what you you're asking for (the information part) next week . ;)

I am glad to hear this, and looking forward to that info. :)

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2 hours ago, Marck said:

I am not asking or wanting to lead or steer development. I do not even necessarily want hydrazine trading back. I want to know more about the reasoning for the decision to remove it. That's why I ask, because I want to learn more about the developers' vision.

SES published long blog postings about new or changed features like augments and the research curve. I am very grateful for that. But I think the removal of features should be an equally worthy subject to post about. Because it gives us insight into what the developers' vision actually is. I want more insight into the developers' thought process regarding the game.

 

Hey Marck! I think lots of players felt this way about hydrazine. Glad you can understand that things are pretty malleable right now, and changes to the game are inevitable. We plan on being extremely vocal about changes to the game going forward so everyone knows what to expect, and why those things are happening. 

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I can see why folks thinks hydrazine gives you "free" resources - you don't have to drive around for hours to collect resources to make it.  Instead, you have to stand there for hours shuffling canisters to make it.  And you have to build the power infrastructure to support it if you want to do it around the clock.  But since it takes time and power - the very same things it takes to collect resources - it's not really that different.  The only real difference I see is that it's a never-ending supply.  But the supplies of compound, resin, etc. in the Astroneer universe are essentially unlimited anyway- unless you're the type that mines every cave and mountain on every planet.  I think the argument that hydrazine is "free resources" has to be thought through more carefully.

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On May 24, 2017 at 0:10 AM, Marck said:

I give you the benefit of being a moderator on this forum, so I take your reply as a quasi official one. Does this imply that there will only be a single play style in Astroneer? Astroneer will never be a sandbox game supporting various different play styles? That's disappointing, but I am glad to learn this early about what to expect.

On May 24, 2017 at 0:28 AM, Wyvyrias said:

Please do not take moderator replies regarding the game's development as official statements, unless we explicitly say so. We're community moderators, not employees of System Era Softworks, as such we lack a lot of internal insight.

That's very true doe, I'm not official or anything, just sharing my opinion here as a user.

Massive amount of features was actually, removed, or suspended such as conveyors, automations, auto-smelter, landing pad, and more during the pre-alpha version of the game. There are may reason for it to be removed, one of which may either be bugs, or that it does not match the intended design. 

I personally dislike the exploit of hydrazine, And I'm glad that it's removed

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On 5/23/2017 at 5:06 PM, SES_joe said:

We plan on being extremely vocal about changes to the game going forward so everyone knows what to expect, and why those things are happening. 

Glad to see you join the SES team Joe.  I think I can safely say we all look forward to you settling into and embracing your new position and to hearing what news and information you are going to release.

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On ‎23‎.‎5‎.‎2017 at 3:11 PM, ChrisCwmbran said:

I came across the hydrazine trading "loophole' myself and admittedly to start with I used it. I soon realized that it made the game trivial and non-fun.

Me too. I support removing that. 

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No, I disagree with removing hydrazine trading. They should bring it back and allow players to trade hydrazine again but with a little twist though. The trade platform should operate just like any trading service with the concept of supply and demand. If hydrazine is in demand, then the prices are higher but if the demand is very low, then the hydrazine is worthless. This trading system would have to be thoroughly thought out based on the star system that you're in and would need a way to return prices to normal after so much time has passed, again based on your star system.

Also the value of these resources should also be based on the accessibility of them because as a player, I'd like to be rewarded for my hard work of gathering these resources deep underground. The more you risk, the more you are rewarded.

Trade platform should also have the ability to trade not resources like filters, small batteries, power cells and so on. Maybe something other than resources like Astro Dollars. :)

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5 minutes ago, Mak-a-Face said:

No, I disagree with removing hydrazine trading. They should bring it back and allow players to trade hydrazine again but with a little twist though. The trade platform should operate just like any trading service with the concept of supply and demand. If hydrazine is in demand, then the prices are higher but if the demand is very low, then the hydrazine is worthless.

AFAIK this kind of thing is planned for the future, involving the whole community to create an economy. Basically the community would kill it's value instantly.

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17 minutes ago, Wyvyrias said:

AFAIK this kind of thing is planned for the future, involving the whole community to create an economy. Basically the community would kill it's value instantly.

This will just make a new de facto trade item; people will always gravitate to the most bang for their buck.  As long as that item is not rampantly and easily available (Astronium?) it will balance nicely with exploration.

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On 5/24/2017 at 8:30 AM, Kantanshi said:

@spinlock_1977

It's not the hydrazine itself that's being discussed.  It's the ability to trade hydrazine for everything else when it is so easily obtained.

My point is that it's not that easy - it takes time and infrastructure.  It's slightly easier than resource collection, but that's about it.

For those of us that want to build large bases, slightly easier is very helpful.

I wonder if it boils down to this:  Some folks think there's a finish line, and want it to be challenging to get there.  Other folks (like me), just want to explore, build, and have fun.

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