Sir Tubs

Smart Branching Research, and how to make research more organic

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My idea is that the research should branch off, Like imagine you can't get the fuel condenser when you haven't even unlocked a shuttle. You won't be getting a wide aug for your tool when you cant even make a 8x2 storage. If this would've been implemented in 153 and the whole printer and Vehicle modules debacle wouldn't have happened.They could've just made the 3d printer in a very small pool of items that can be unlocked with your first research ball. This would allow for a more organic feel for advancing through the game and make it that your aren't entirely playing a roulette game just so you don't have to waste a bunch of resin just to place items down. I also don't think this would be to difficult to implement, you guys already uprooted the research system and made it the backbone that it is to advancing. It's just not fun playing a game where the only thing stopping you wanting to explore or play it is because a dumb ball said you get oxygen filters and not a basic item like the 8x2 storage. 

This is how I think item research should be

5902850fe8253_Screenshot(13).thumb.png.e9557be81adfd84bb78d98298951c70d.png

 

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Moved to: Suggestions and Ideas

As far as I would conclude things, that's kind of the way System Era eventually intends it to be (don't quote me on that, though). Either way, it's a good suggestion!

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@Sir Tubs

In "General Discussion" there is a thread called "We are the testers".

As I don't know how to directly quote from a different forum/thread, and assuming I am not breaking forum rules, here's an excerpt of what SES_Adam wrote about the reward/unlock system:

[snip] The first pass of that was the simplest one: An RNG based unlock tier. We have no plans for that to remain the way you earn all items in the game. Though in the future an RNG approach to unlocks might be a way you unlock specific types of items (like cosmetic items, as an example - should we have those in the future). As with everything we do, at the team size we have, we baby-step ourselves in to bigger ideas. Unfortunately this first baby step isn't the best play experience (everything is RNG'd as an unlock) and we'll be improving it in the future (where you as an Astroneer can make more informed decisions of what it is you unlock). [snip]

I'm sure it will make you as happy as it made me.


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2 minutes ago, Wyvyrias said:

Moved to: Suggestions and Ideas

As far as I would conclude things, that's kind of the way System Era eventually intends it to be (don't quote me on that, though). Either way, it's a good suggestion!

Could we get some kind of info/opinion/thoughts on that from the dev team?  From @SamanthaZero's blog post last week, it sounded like it was going the opposite way: rather than a tech tree, unlocks would be based strictly on the type of chest that you research, and the groupings would remain "flat", rather than having prerequisites.

I like the concept of being able to direct your research by finding certain kinds of chests, but I don't think it works without a tech tree, and I don't think it works as the primary research mechanism - especially if there's going to be a lot more stuff that you could research... some info/clarification on that would be nice, too... is there going to be a lot of different tech eventually, or is it going to forever be a really small set?

I understand that the intent of the algorithm change was to have the experience be better, feel less random, encourage exploration, etc., but it seems to be having the opposite effect: instead of knowing you found something new, or knowing that you need to explore more because there's clearly nothing new around, it's now about finding every chest, and hoping that each one finally contains an unlock, but expecting to be disappointed. (for the most part - there seem to be a few "completers" that do like the new experience)

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37 minutes ago, Wyvyrias said:

Moved to: Suggestions and Ideas

As far as I would conclude things, that's kind of the way System Era eventually intends it to be (don't quote me on that, though). Either way, it's a good suggestion!

Really?, would be awesome to see

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I have a few questions too about "what you get depends on the type of chest" as where we land and what's available within a reasonable driving range could have a serious impact on how we progress. Wait and see...

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1 hour ago, Eoghan said:

I have a few questions too about "what you get depends on the type of chest" as where we land and what's available within a reasonable driving range could have a serious impact on how we progress. Wait and see...

aggred it would work better if we could clearly know what type of research it is and what categories there are

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We've been talking about this a lot. Making research less random is definitely the direction we want to go. We have other ideas for how to use the weighted randomization system too. Expect the experience of acquiring new research to change in the future :)

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5 hours ago, SamanthaZero said:

We've been talking about this a lot. Making research less random is definitely the direction we want to go. We have other ideas for how to use the weighted randomization system too. Expect the experience of acquiring new research to change in the future :)

Soooooon Please......lol

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An idea I've had with the research is that it's a bit like the 3d printer you cycle through the available items you can research and you get the image of the item then you get the image of the pod/nut you need unlock that research. 

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1 hour ago, TrojanSteel said:

An idea I've had with the research is that it's a bit like the 3d printer you cycle through the available items you can research and you get the image of the item then you get the image of the pod/nut you need unlock that research. 

Check out this post I made replying on the idea of seeing your research ...

 

21 hours ago, Optinalmind said:

So a interface like this where I click on a "info" button with my cursor...

research_Improved_UI_1.thumb.png.e13998de0f607a15a7be40228f2434bf.png

Then it opens up this menu...

research_Improved_UI_2.thumb.png.bd32c9d634594c386f073054b93c231d.png

Explanation :

5906b6d2e1220_research_Improved_UI_2(explained).thumb.png.66ae8c9ff890e988a46bca3b0a3f1f56.png

( Don't Judge Icons In Tabs As I Made Them In A Short Time )

So each tab ( respectively Right to left ) Backpack, Printer, Vehicle, Ship would have pages of items.

( Vehicle and Ship tab could also just be Vehicle bay tab )

Non-researched items would be grayed out, while researched items would be lit up. You can navigate through all items by clicking on the pages represented by the circles on the bottom of the menu. In addition maybe a menu would show up as you scrolled over a item and would give you info on that item ( maybe not just to keep simplistic look ).

Menu can be closed by clicking " info Button (Research Menu Button)" again.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Optinalmind said:

Check out this post I made replying on the idea of seeing your research ...

 

 

Very nice. the top square could be the item and the bottom could be the research pod you need to unlock it.  This would be randomly generated so its not the same all the time.

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On 5/1/2017 at 7:01 PM, Optinalmind said:

Check out this post I made replying on the idea of seeing your research ...

 

 

hmm, see i think the randomness is kinda fun at times, but being able to just pick out whatever you want, i dont think thats the direction the game should go in. I think another direction research could go all together is having to find the item in the wild first to be able to make it, sort of similar to subnautica, could be interesting but hard to pull of this early in the game. I just think having pool where you can the item you want from but still have a sense of some randomness would be nice. But right now everyone and the devs know its broken, In my opinion if they wanted to make the research system harder, just make a much harder end game stuff, I was in love how the game started and i don't they needed to change the balancing up that much, just add more stuff in later end game, but they don't have the resources to just make a bunch of stuff for end game, it takes time, like any good game to develop  

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For those of you who haven't played "Alpha Centauri" (one of the many games in the "Sid Meyer's Civilization" series), they had an interesting twist on research.

At the start of a new game, the player had the choice to go with a classic research tree where you have to already know X before you can put research points in Y. The other other option was called "blind research" if I remember correctly. All research, base improvements, military units, etc. belonged to one of 4 families (explore, build, conquer, discover). The player would decide which family put research into and then the game would choose what to research while ensuring the player already had the pre-requisites. Also, the 4 families were intertwined and one item from "conquer" may, for example, have had pre-reqs in both the "conquer" and "discover" families. Looks complicated but it was very simple in practice.

In an Astroneer context, the player could decide for example to go for "energy production" (instead of "vehicles" or ???) and then Astroneer would pick a blueprint from the chosen branch.

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