mikebgator

Keep the game Sciencey

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Although there are some aspects of the game that will seem magical and violate the laws of physics, such as the terraformer, I think the developers will find success by keeping as much science in the game as is practical. Look at recent examples of highly success films and books such as The Martian and the first 3/4 of Interstellar. They did a great job making sure the science was accurate and imposed realistic constraints, which made the films enjoyable as you didn't have to suspend your disbelief to watch them. These concepts could apply to Astroneer and add some structure, constraints, and realism that could actually add value to the game and contribute to its success.

For example, food should be a critical part of the game, yet not to the extent that we have to watch astroneer eat a protein bar every thirty minutes. Having a limited supply of food when the hab hits the ground means Astroneer should need to build a bio-dome to grow food. Once this is done, we can assume that the tether provides Astroneer with food.  If multiple Astroneers are on a tether, you will need multiple bio-domes supplying those tethers to keep up with demand. When away from a tether connected to a bio-dome a sustenance timer will begin, it should be very long, say an hour of real time. To counter this: in addition to automatically feeding you, a second bio-dome could automatically produce food units you can bring with you.

That is only one example of science, a small part of the foresight and need to plan an astroneer would face before hopping in a rover and trying to drive around the planet or fly into space. Keeping science in the game not only provides real education and some structure/goals to players, I think it could contribute to the games reception and success.

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i agree with your premise as well.  although the community is split ( see survival / O2 threads )  i suggest a type of mode.  i too like the science and math.  i want to sit in my hab and have to plan a trip out to dust of the solar panels with a calculator and a slide rule.........

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What does this add to the game?  Why don't they just make the O2 tank purple and say it is a food/O2 mixture

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I would like to add to "Keep the game sciency" that data like mass or gravitational pull would enhance the game for the space-freaks. Maybe an option for disabling such would be nice for everyone right?

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Not for this game.

This game is about fun exploration, not about survival calculation.

Can you name a game which is close to realism in your opinion? Space themed please. It would be never fun not pleasant.

What is more real in your opinion? Compound to fit your needs? Air condensed Hydrazine to fly to orbit? Spacesuit eating green spores in O2less atmosphere?

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46 minutes ago, Nich said:

What does this add to the game?  Why don't they just make the O2 tank purple and say it is a food/O2 mixture

It would add realism. Currently, we don't have a long term ability to make o2 from co2, so the game is already assuming that the hub has advanced co2 to o2 technology, which I think is plausible. However, there is no scientific way to turn waste into food except organic processes that use sunlight. Don't get too caught up on the food example, I know thats controversial, but there are other elements where adding science could enhance the game and content. For example: what are the atmospheres on the planets composed of? They could be great resources or they could be utterly useless, even dangerous. Not every plant will be able to produce hydrazine from the atmosphere, a consideration before you set up shop on a planet. So looking at the game from a sciencey perspective can add content.

 

26 minutes ago, Sad Brother said:

Not for this game.

This game is about fun exploration, not about survival calculation.

Can you name a game which is close to realism in your opinion? Space themed please. It would be never fun not pleasant.

What is more real in your opinion? Compound to fit your needs? Air condensed Hydrazine to fly to orbit? Spacesuit eating green spores in O2less atmosphere?

Its easy to forget that space travel and exploration is the single greatest technological and economic challenge that exists. Adding in realism allows for challenges, goals, additional game time, and most importantly considering scientific aspects and their ramifications allow for additional content! If we ignore science than why bother having o2 or energy constraints? Why bother launching a gps satellite, or having tug around extra batteries? I could go on but the point is if the game is about pure exploration it will limit its commercial success, it will have small group of fans who love it but will likely never make it past alpha as there isn't demand. I have already explored my planets to satisfaction and do not have a great desire to do more. Thus if the game existed basically as is I would not buy it. However, I understand I don't represent everyone, if the developers offered a sandbox mode (with no constraints) for players it may be attractive to some people. At this point the game needs more content and keeping it sciencey as feasible gives you content, without stopping people from exploring or building if they want.

Secondly if you can't name a realistic space game that is fun... sounds like a market opportunity to me.

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12 minutes ago, mikebgator said:

 if the game is about pure exploration it will limit its commercial success

It is pointless to try to catch each coin. There would be always different games.

14 minutes ago, mikebgator said:

if you can't name a realistic space game that is fun... sounds like a market opportunity to me

I did not found realistic enough game about space. And it seems cannot find. Can you name one?

Space realism is too boring and demanding. Not for games.

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I think what you're really looking for is more procedural generation, where everything is subset to a set of laws that govern the in-game universe. I'm a huge advocate of procedural gen in any game, but this one deserves it the most. For instance, it would be an easy matter for tech you research to be based on the plant/rock pillar/whatever you plucked it from, leading to stuff like personal shields against spike creatures or access to advanced alloys. Name your techs something like: Organic, Mineral, Space and Survival, and bam, you're able to customize your research tree based on in-game actions.

Integrated systems, enhanced by elegant in-game logic (is the planet low gravity? Shouldn't trees and animals be thinner and taller?) leads to a game that can easily be described as a universe explorer, with all the science behind it, rather than a mere planet explorer.

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1 hour ago, Sad Brother said:

It is pointless to try to catch each coin. There would be always different games.

I did not found realistic enough game about space. And it seems cannot find. Can you name one?

Space realism is too boring and demanding. Not for games.

Respectfully disagree, they should try to make as much money as they can. The developers have offices, salaries, other expenditures, and ultimately peoples jobs and families could be on the line if the game isn't commercially successful enough. My other point was, if a fun realistic space game does not currently exist than Astroneer can corner the market, I believe such a game is possible and would be successful. I think Astoneer can be that game if the developers choose.

5 minutes ago, Abbysynth said:

I think what you're really looking for is more procedural generation, where everything is subset to a set of laws that govern the in-game universe. I'm a huge advocate of procedural gen in any game, but this one deserves it the most. For instance, it would be an easy matter for tech you research to be based on the plant/rock pillar/whatever you plucked it from, leading to stuff like personal shields against spike creatures or access to advanced alloys. Name your techs something like: Organic, Mineral, Space and Survival, and bam, you're able to customize your research tree based on in-game actions.

Integrated systems, enhanced by elegant in-game logic (is the planet low gravity? Shouldn't trees and animals be thinner and taller?) leads to a game that can easily be described as a universe explorer, with all the science behind it, rather than a mere planet explorer.

Yes! Agree 100%  Adding science and rules behind the game generation allows for so much more content! Imagine if the atmosphere was very dense and astroneer could research small blimps (much smaller than normal due to dense atmosphere) to use to travel. Lots of possibilities if you can use science to vary the planets as you discussed! 

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3 minutes ago, mikebgator said:

Respectfully disagree, they should try to make as much money as they can. The developers have offices, salaries, other expenditures, and ultimately peoples jobs and families could be on the line if the game isn't commercially successful enough. My other point was, if a fun realistic space game does not currently exist than Astroneer can corner the market, I believe such a game is possible and would be successful. I think Astoneer can be that game if the developers choose.

With all my respect if they would try to catch all, they would lose more. I bought it already, so they have some money ;)

My other point was "fun realistic space game" is impossible. And in this space game I prefer fun. I paid my coin when I see developers chose Fun instead of Realism.

9 minutes ago, mikebgator said:

 Adding science and rules behind the game generation allows for so much more content!

For the sake of Realism ;)

We have only one example of organic life. Is it possible in other conditions? How would it looks? Are other conditions possible  at all? That's speculations only, not science.

Where have you seen procedural generation of organic life? No mans sky? Spore? Do you like results?

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22 minutes ago, Sad Brother said:

With all my respect if they would try to catch all, they would lose more. I bought it already, so they have some money ;)

My other point was "fun realistic space game" is impossible.

I agree with you on the first point, trying to please everyone is a recipe for failure.

On the second point, many players of Kerbal Space Program would disagree with you on the impossibility of a "fun realistic space game".

Honestly though, KSP seems to fill that niche pretty well, and other than a couple of the mineral names I'd say currently Astroneer is about as "sciencey" as Star Wars (which is to say, not at all) and it is great for it.

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1 minute ago, erikinthebakery said:

Honestly though, KSP seems to fill that niche pretty well

I play it now ;)

Realism: 1.Only one "active" vessel at any time. 2. Those immortal crazy beauties can "invent" nuclear drive from the endless message about thermometer, unable to show space temperature and endless mimic of the strange garbage substance. 3. Gravity and atmosphere models are quite limited.

Fun: 1.Even shortened space flight are too long, almost boring. 2. Messages are more endless than author's fantasy. 3. Whole game is constructing, launch, orbit, randevu, dock, land sequences.

Result: 1.Realism fight with Fun in this game. 2. Realism lose to the game engine. 3. Fun lose to the limited fantasy.

Game still good and one of best thing in it is the ability to support mods.

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I feel like we have gone into the weeds with the realism aspect. My original point was that there are some elements of the game that will need to be magical to be fun, but keeping science concepts in the game, like we have now, will allow for greater content and commercial success. The game does not need to be 100% realistic, but adding in carefully chosen science concepts should add value. I agree it is not science heavy at the moment, but they actually are using and drawing on numerous scientific concepts and should keep it up. How they blend them with gameplay is how you get the magic of star wars. If the game developers take it on a less sciencey course in its development, I think it will lose value. Imagine not needing oxygen, hydrazine for rockets, or energy for your rovers, if its too easy you just fly around looking at planets until you are bored. So my thought for the developers was keep science in mind as they move forward, as they have clearly kept science in mind with the work already done.

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But again how does this add to the experience?

You want to add food? ok why stop there.  If your astroneer does not eat every 30 minutes he dies

Why not add vitamins, minerals, proteins (16 different types), sugars, carbohydrates?  If he does not get enough of different vitamins, and minerals he dies.  Not enough protein he get slower and slower and eventually die.  Then add in 20-30 vegetables, 20-30 fruits, 5-6 protein sources.  All of these provide different levels of vitamins, minerals, proteins with some chemical energy but are very expensive to produce(equivalent of titanium and require consumption of 6-8 servings a day of each).  Then add in grans and sugars.  These provide almost no vitamins, minerals, proteins but contain a lot of chemical energy(these are the equilivent of copper/iron and requires 8-12 servings a day resting or 30-50 if you are sprinting all day).  Then we can add in a resting required chemical energy to survive (this has to be maintained even when you are not playing the game, If you don't play for  48 hours your character dies).  In addition every action running, walking, jumping, sprinting will eat up at your chemical energy bar faster).  Of course both resting and active chemical energy would be dependent on your astroneers weight. (chemical energy storage capacity).  By keeping energy levels at 120% capacity you can increase you chemical energy capacity but you also increase your weight.  Only 50% of the chemical energy above 100% can be used.  If your character falls below 80% you characters chemical energy capacity will decease and your character will lose weight.  However while losing weight sprinting is unavailable and jump will be reduced to half.

 

Next lets add in obesity, heart disease, body building..............................

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1+ for the initial article 

And: KSP is a good example of simplification to be playable and science to learn about physics in spacetravel. (that's why astroneer can spare that part and concentrate on the planet exploration )

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.... ORRRRRRRRRRR not be soooooooo easy as Minecraft in creative mode.

 

again, it would be nice if they added different modes ( except for the above mention 'minecraft in creative mode' mode <---- pathetic.......

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Ok PLEASE stop. Astroneer is a game about a little cartoon astronaut exploring a planet. If you dont like the game, go play

space engineers. Its a great game about realism, building custom space ships, and epic battles. It is not a simple game, nor an easy one. Astroneer is not space engineers. If you want to play a game thats to be  kerbal space program + star wars, go play this game. Its fun, but not in the way that astroneer is.

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6 hours ago, Nich said:

But again how does this add to the experience?

You want to add food? ok why stop there.  If your astroneer does not eat every 30 minutes he dies

Why not add vitamins, minerals, proteins (16 different types), sugars, carbohydrates?  If he does not get enough of different vitamins, and minerals he dies.  Not enough protein he get slower and slower and eventually die.  Then add in 20-30 vegetables, 20-30 fruits, 5-6 protein sources.  All of these provide different levels of vitamins, minerals, proteins with some chemical energy but are very expensive to produce(equivalent of titanium and require consumption of 6-8 servings a day of each).  Then add in grans and sugars.  These provide almost no vitamins, minerals, proteins but contain a lot of chemical energy(these are the equilivent of copper/iron and requires 8-12 servings a day resting or 30-50 if you are sprinting all day).  Then we can add in a resting required chemical energy to survive (this has to be maintained even when you are not playing the game, If you don't play for  48 hours your character dies).  In addition every action running, walking, jumping, sprinting will eat up at your chemical energy bar faster).  Of course both resting and active chemical energy would be dependent on your astroneers weight. (chemical energy storage capacity).  By keeping energy levels at 120% capacity you can increase you chemical energy capacity but you also increase your weight.  Only 50% of the chemical energy above 100% can be used.  If your character falls below 80% you characters chemical energy capacity will decease and your character will lose weight.  However while losing weight sprinting is unavailable and jump will be reduced to half.

 

Next lets add in obesity, heart disease, body building..............................

This is so true. If you want a realistic game, go play real life.

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